The Monsters of High Gain: Metal amp shootout

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http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... _Gain.aspx

Not Axe-Fx related but you sure get a picture of what these amps sound like in real life. Bulb is the other guy testing those.

Well... I guess the next poll should be to re-work the Diezel amp sim because it was my favorite one and I can't get those tones out of the Axe-fx. And there are MANY AMAZING tones in that amp. Clean, crunch, high gain, lead and everything between. One amp sim doesn't do it and this would really be the best amp at least IMO.

And ofcourse the Axe-Fx should come in white also!
 
I agree about the Diezel... Having a VH4 completly modeled like the very last sims were... Seems yummy ! Even though the current one is very good already (my main amp).

However I'd prefer the Axe in snake leather like the Soldanos :cool:
 
I think the AxeFx is about 75% there with matching the high gain amps. There are two issues from what I hear and see:

1. Depth. There is something going on in the high gain amps in the lower frequencies that is not being matched in the AxeFx. I ran the effects loop send out of a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and into my DAW. I compared it to the Dual Rectifier model in the AxeFx into the DAW (no cab). There was a difference in "depth" compared to the real deal. The Mesa Boogie had much more depth while maintaining a compressed signal compared to the AxeFx. I can turn up the Depth to 10.00 on the AxeFx and it will start getting closer to the depth of the Mesa but then it starts losing the compressed sound. It seems like the Depth on the AxeFx would need to reach 15.00+ (which isn't possible right now) and the Depth parameter would also need to have more of an effect on the signal in the lower register (lower harmonics?). With my Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier I have this "in the chest punch" that I don't get with the AxeFx unless I put an EQ in there, turn the Depth to 10.00, and mess with Damping and other parameters and it's still not there. The "Recto New" model is closer in that respect but then again it is different sounding too.

2. Frequency range. Again if you compare (in a frequency analyzer) the output of the high frequencies of a real Peavey 5150 to the AxeFx 5150 then you will see a difference in the high frequencies. The Peavey exhibits output over 20K whereas the AxeFx 5150 model seemed to cut-off much sooner (I don't remember the exact figure when I compared them but I think the AxeFx 5150 model sharply dropped off at 15,000 Hz. Now I don't know the technical explanation for this, it could be to reduce "digital nastiness". I don't know I just know that when I compared the Peavey 5150 through my Mesa Boogie 4x12 cabinet and then the AxeFx 5150 model through the same cabinet (bypassing the cabinet model on the AxeFx), the Peavey had a sharper sound and maintained fidelity at a lower presence level.

I don't want to start a new thread about this with graphs and sound clips because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and start a storm. I still think the AxeFx is an awesome product and I used it on recordings for a couple bands and they were very happy. I just think in a live situation with the AxeFx going through a real cabinet there is still something left to be desired when using the high gain models.
 
SimonSez said:
I think the AxeFx is about 75% there with matching the high gain amps. There are two issues from what I hear and see:

1. Depth. There is something going on in the high gain amps in the lower frequencies that is not being matched in the AxeFx. I ran the effects loop send out of a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and into my DAW. I compared it to the Dual Rectifier model in the AxeFx into the DAW (no cab). There was a difference in "depth" compared to the real deal. The Mesa Boogie had much more depth while maintaining a compressed signal compared to the AxeFx. I can turn up the Depth to 10.00 on the AxeFx and it will start getting closer to the depth of the Mesa but then it starts losing the compressed sound. It seems like the Depth on the AxeFx would need to reach 15.00+ (which isn't possible right now) and the Depth parameter would also need to have more of an effect on the signal in the lower register (lower harmonics?). With my Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier I have this "in the chest punch" that I don't get with the AxeFx unless I put an EQ in there, turn the Depth to 10.00, and mess with Damping and other parameters and it's still not there. The "Recto New" model is closer in that respect but then again it is different sounding too.

2. Frequency range. Again if you compare (in a frequency analyzer) the output of the high frequencies of a real Peavey 5150 to the AxeFx 5150 then you will see a difference in the high frequencies. The Peavey exhibits output over 20K whereas the AxeFx 5150 model seemed to cut-off much sooner (I don't remember the exact figure when I compared them but I think the AxeFx 5150 model sharply dropped off at 15,000 Hz. Now I don't know the technical explanation for this, it could be to reduce "digital nastiness". I don't know I just know that when I compared the Peavey 5150 through my Mesa Boogie 4x12 cabinet and then the AxeFx 5150 model through the same cabinet (bypassing the cabinet model on the AxeFx), the Peavey had a sharper sound and maintained fidelity at a lower presence level.

I don't want to start a new thread about this with graphs and sound clips because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and start a storm. I still think the AxeFx is an awesome product and I used it on recordings for a couple bands and they were very happy. I just think in a live situation with the AxeFx going through a real cabinet there is still something left to be desired when using the high gain models.
Click to expand...

For the cutoff check your highfreq cutoff on advanced parameters.
 
AlbertA said:
For the cutoff check your highfreq cutoff on advanced parameters.
Click to expand...

+1

I was having an issue with not getting enough "sizzle" out of my high gain sounds (even after using bright IRs and the SM57 which increases the brightness).

I have started turning the HF cutoff all the way up to 20K and it seems to have cured it.
 
AlbertA said:
For the cutoff check your highfreq cutoff on advanced parameters.
Click to expand...

This isn't a matter of parameters. Yes the high freq cutoff is at the maximum allowed value (20K I think).
 
SimonSez said:
I don't want to start a new thread about this with graphs and sound clips because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and start a storm. I still think the AxeFx is an awesome product and I used it on recordings for a couple bands and they were very happy. I just think in a live situation with the AxeFx going through a real cabinet there is still something left to be desired when using the high gain models.
Click to expand...

This is the main problem in this forum. If you say something that questions that the Axe-Fx might not be perfect you get attacked and knocked to the ground. I think the Depth control is stupid... there's nothing useful I can get out of that parameter.
 
Clark Kent said:
This is the main problem in this forum. If you say something that questions that the Axe-Fx might not be perfect you get attacked and knocked to the ground. I think the Depth control is stupid... there's nothing useful I can get out of that parameter.
Click to expand...

I don't share that view. And here we go again. Clark, you're a great contributor. You also have a history of statements and claims, which have proven to be plain wrong. I can post a list really. That adds to the intensified discussions. You're doing it again now. So why not take some reponsibility, instead of claiming "respect" in your posts. In my experience one cannot claim respect, one has to earn it.
On topic of Depth: it's a handy parameter to, for example, make the Cornford sim less boomy.
 
yek said:
Clark Kent said:
This is the main problem in this forum. If you say something that questions that the Axe-Fx might not be perfect you get attacked and knocked to the ground. I think the Depth control is stupid... there's nothing useful I can get out of that parameter.
Click to expand...

I don't share that view. And here we go again. Clark, you're a great contributor. You also have a history of statements and claims, which have proven to be plain wrong. I can post a list really. That adds to the intensified discussions. You're doing it again now. So why not take some reponsibility, instead of claiming "respect" in your posts. In my experience one cannot claim respect, one has to earn it.
On topic of Depth: it's a handy parameter to, for example, make the Cornford sim less boomy.
Click to expand...

No. Read my post: "I think the Depth control is stupid..." I sure have a right to think whatever I want. I'm not saying that it's a fact. "I think" = "my opinion" and that's freedom of speech. I don't know about your countries but it's okay in my country.
 
My comments concerned another part of your post.
But if you want to link the use of Depth to freedom of speech, go ahead by all means. :)
 
Well yeah. :) Also the first part of my post is my opinion which I believe in a 100%. F.ex. If someone is selling their Axe-Fx they are always: "doing it wrong" or there's something wrong with their other equipment and it can never be an issue with the Axe-Fx. Sure the Axe-Fx works for me but my mind is open enough to realize that some might have their issues with the UI for instance. Main point is: post something bad about the Axe-Fx -> you get insulted. (still an opinion... not a rule or whatever) I'm not just talking about my posts although I've had my share of those but in general. Check them out. And it's not just this forum. I was reading Bare Knuckle Pickups forum and somehow it seems like it's impossible that someone doesn't like BKP pickups. "You've got dead ears" or something if not every pickup will blow your brains out. Then the Boogie board... I probably don't even have to mention what's wrong with that one. But this is not on topic so let's stop. :D
 
Let's stop the off-topic "Axe-FX fans are anti-freedom of speech" nonsense and get back to the topic at hand. Shalom. :cool:

SimonSez said:
1. Depth. There is something going on in the high gain amps in the lower frequencies that is not being matched in the AxeFx. I ran the effects loop send out of a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and into my DAW. I compared it to the Dual Rectifier model in the AxeFx into the DAW (no cab). There was a difference in "depth" compared to the real deal.
Click to expand...

You're not really doing an apples to apples comparison here. The effects loop send out of a Mesa Boogie is after the pre-amp and before the power-amp. The Dual Rectifier model in the AxeFX will include power amp emulation unless you turn that off.

Did you turn off power-amp emulation?

SimonSez said:
The Peavey exhibits output over 20K whereas the AxeFx 5150 model seemed to cut-off much sooner (I don't remember the exact figure when I compared them but I think the AxeFx 5150 model sharply dropped off at 15,000 Hz)
Click to expand...

I'm not discounting that there may be discrepancies in the high-end between the Axe-FX and the real 5150 but I don't think this it the reason why. Guitar speakers roll off sharply above 5khz. If there are tonal differences you hear in the high-end it's probably in the 2khz-5khz range where you'd need to look.
 
I've actually tried this too. I ran my Axe-Fx Recto New through a Mesa Dual Recto's return and the high end was the same IMO but the low end however wasn't. I got it sounding the same but not with just the amp block.
 
Clark Kent said:
http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2010/Dec/The_Monsters_of_High_Gain.aspx

Not Axe-Fx related but you sure get a picture of what these amps sound like in real life. Bulb is the other guy testing those.
Click to expand...
FWIW, just to throw some gas on the fire, I listened to every single one of those videos the day I got my latest issue of PG and I thought every single amp sounded like ass, seriously. I have no idea how they managed to make all these great amps sound like hammered sh*t. I probably liked the Powerball vid the best and I don't even like that amp in real life. :?

I really have to wonder how the hell they recorded this video and encoded the audio because it is seriously lacking. I know the guys demoing it are good players, etc and I know PG is a good mag and has their heart in the right place, but I've never watched that many high gain amp videos back to back not felt even a twinge of GAS.

I know you have done experiments with a real Recto and Axe, Clark, so that's cool, but I would implore people watching this stuff and evaluating sounds to be careful in drawing conclusions based on not only recordings in general, but vids in particular.
 
These sound like they left the speech mic on top of the guitar tracks. The SM57 seems to be well placed. :?
 
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