Deltafit

Inspired
For many of you, you already know this and it's very obvious...but one of the most important pieces of advice I can give anyone to try is, if you can...experiment with different monitors/speakers! I've been using RCF Ayra Pro 6's in my home for a good few years now with my AX8 and now my FM9. Thought they were pretty decent. They are a budget monitor around the £200-300 mark.

Recently my band split up and so we were all left to sell our gear. I adopted a couple of RCF ART 322a's. We used them as monitors/wedges in the band. Always thought they were good...nothing special...but good.

Anyways...I plugged in my FM9 in the house to experiment and WOW. I cannot emphasize how blown away I am. My presets sound absolutely incredible through them. Once my ears adjusted and I got very used to how they sound, I plugged back into my Ayra Pro's and I could not believe how unbelievably crap they sound! How the hell did I think these and my presets sounded good???

Because of this quest (that we are all on), I decided to pick up a used Fender FR-10. I honestly had high hopes because of all the hype these speakers have been getting. Well, it came and I plugged it in....massively disappointed. Sounded OK at best. The cleans...fine. Anything with gain....boxy as hell. Very mid pushed I would say in the 300-600hz region. But then it begs the question...is the Fender frequency curve flat and it's the settings in my FM9 that need changing, or is the frequency curve in the RCF 322a very smiley faced and that's why I'm enjoying it??

Whatever they are...I MUCH prefer the 322a's! No nasty or unpleasant frequencies, punchy, loud, not too harsh, not boxy....just right to my ears. I've been playing coming up 30 years and been through MANY monitors and I'm still amazed at how different, different speakers/monitors can sound. But the RCF ART 322a's are the best monitoring solution I have ever tried in all those years. It's all personal though and individually subjective. I'm honestly very disappointed in the Fender. Boy is it LOUD!

So anybody who is perhaps struggling with not enjoying what you are hearing....try different speakers and maybe you'll find one that's right FOR YOU!
 
Or just optimize it with the EQ, or?

Yeah of course, you can always mess around with EQ, but I'm a big advocate of not having to do that if necessary. Same with IR's...if I have to play too much with the EQ then it's time to find a new one more suited.
 
Yeah of course, you can always mess around with EQ, but I'm a big advocate of not having to do that if necessary. Same with IR's...if I have to play too much with the EQ then it's time to find a new one more suited.
I just got a used fr12 at a good price (no hiss :)). I tried it in my living room with wood floors and a bit of carpet. I found the fr12 to resonate more than a studio monitor and it may have had a bit too much bass. I ended up moving the speaker away from the wall (to reduce the bass) and increasing the treble. I played with vox/twin presets that sounded great to me. No tweaking of the presets though. I liked the resonance/feel of the fr12. For me a bit of tweaking on the fr12 panel and moving the speaker removed anything i would call boxyness.

I then moved the fr12 into my basement music room. I have wall/ceiling treatments and bass traps along with a pair of yamaha hs8 monitors that i am used to playing through. I played through the yamahas and fr12 (out 1 and out2) and other than a bit of cabinet resonance there wasn’t a huge difference with my tone. I varied the volumes. They both sounded great to me.

Room character & speaker placement can have an impact on sound and sometimes a bit of eq can help.
 
Room character & speaker placement can have an impact on sound and sometimes a bit of eq can help

Absolutely! 100% with you on that.

Do you play any really high gain stuff/presets? I noticed you said Vox and Twin presets. I mentioned the more cleaner stuff sounded absolutely fine to me...it was when I played the higher gain stuff the boxyness came in and I didn't enjoy what I was hearing as much. Don't get me wrong...I've heard waayyyy worse speakers...just all the hype I was expecting much more.
 
Absolutely! 100% with you on that.

Do you play any really high gain stuff/presets? I noticed you said Vox and Twin presets. I mentioned the more cleaner stuff sounded absolutely fine to me...it was when I played the higher gain stuff the boxyness came in and I didn't enjoy what I was hearing as much. Don't get me wrong...I've heard waayyyy worse speakers...just all the hype I was expecting much more.
Your right it was mostly clean! I did have a drive (a little dirt) on at some point but nothing that would be high gain.

I found the fr12 added to jazz style chords/tones. I was enjoying playing clean.

I think some people are referring to that fr12 resonance as an amp in the room feel. For me I could play to the way it responded more than a studio monitor (e.g., my yamaha hs8s).

Your right though, whatever it is doing may not actually help with more complex high gain tones 👍. Some others may have to chime in about those.
 
Or just optimize it with the EQ, or?
Some speakers just can’t produce all the frequencies well and with separation. Flubby low end and shrill highs are common with inexpensive speakers. EQ only goes so far. I play with some of the worst of the worst at my regular gigs that provide sound LOL.
 
Some speakers just can’t produce all the frequencies well and with separation. Flubby low end and shrill highs are common with inexpensive speakers. EQ only goes so far. I play with some of the worst of the worst at my regular gigs that provide sound LOL.

Exactly. Once again with the Fender...the cleans were fine. It was the high gain that it really started to show weakness. But I noticed it more because I had those 322a's right there to do a quick comparison. And for me there is no comparison...the RCF just blows it out the water. But then again...the RCF was probably over double the price of what the Fender retails at...so you would think it should be. And at the end of the day, RCF are a professional loudspeaker company.

The 322a's are old tech now too. These speakers are getting on for 15 year old. But still sound amazing as a monitor for the FM9/Axefx.
 
I had the Fender FR12's and sent them back. I ordered a FR10 just to see the difference and yeah, cleans were fine but no luck on high gain stuff for me. I'm sticking with my CLR'S even though the company pisses me off and I've had a couple issues lately.
 
Absolutely! 100% with you on that.

Do you play any really high gain stuff/presets? I noticed you said Vox and Twin presets. I mentioned the more cleaner stuff sounded absolutely fine to me...it was when I played the higher gain stuff the boxyness came in and I didn't enjoy what I was hearing as much. Don't get me wrong...I've heard waayyyy worse speakers...just all the hype I was expecting much more.
I have had the FR 12 for about a month now .
I bought it for , that amp in the room sound.
I really still like like it a lot for chording and clean leads, but I agree the high gain sounds are missing something .
I cannot put my finger on it .
I am still new to the F M 9 and am still experimenting with both the factory presets and scenes.
I have tweaked some of them around a bit in the attempts to get a a better high gain sound out of it that I like .
I have also tried to make my own to do this
One thing that does help my ears a little , is using the sustain compressor after the input block followed by a RAT block prior tho the amp block.
I still have not got that, Feel it in your gut ,type sound. I'm looking for.
Has anyone managed to get this out of the Fend. FR12. ?
Has any one tried placing the Celeston FRS in. the fender FR12 ?
I don't know if it would fit the holes or how to satisfy the impedance requirements and other logistics ,given the design of the fender preamp , crossover and tweeter.
The cab though might be an interesting blank slate for anyone industrious and knowledgable enough to experiment with it.
Just a thought .
in the meantime I'm sticking with my FR 12. Cheers and have a great day All !
 
FR-10 Frequency response is specified as -3dB, which is a LOT, particularly at 70/75Hz. Anyone have the actual frequency response curve vs. frequency?
Screenshot 2024-07-30 at 11.54.38 AM.png
 
Makes sense. A lot of that character and cut of overdriven guitar is 2.2k-3.3k, generally missing in this fr plot.
 
Makes sense. A lot of that character and cut of overdriven guitar is 2.2k-3.3k, generally missing in this fr plot.
If you look at the faint grey plot above.. that is the recommended "flat setting" with an Archangel V2 preamp. It restores the mids to a place that works way better in a lot of venues.
 
If you look at the faint grey plot above.. that is the recommended "flat setting" with an Archangel V2 preamp. It restores the mids to a place that works way better in a lot of venues.
Fair. I'm surprised at how much the mids are chopped in the response. I would think you'd want to ship the unit with something more like the grey as native response than the actual response. The ripple is HUGE as well. 10dB drop from 100Hz to 600Hz.
 
Fair. I'm surprised at how much the mids are chopped in the response. I would think you'd want to ship the unit with something more like the grey as native response than the actual response. The ripple is HUGE as well. 10dB drop from 100Hz to 600Hz.
I don’t stress about the specs. The room acoustics and placement in the room will have a huge affect on the frequency response of any speaker.

I have the FR12 and it is the best FRFR cab I have heard, and I have owned/tried several. For reference, I am using it in a treated room with ATC SCM45A monitors.

I actually prefer playing my FM3 through the FR12 to playing it through my ATC monitors. Don’t get me wrong, it sounds great through the ATCs, but the FR12 has the amp in the room feeling that I am used to hearing over the past 45 years of playing through tube amps.
 
This was mentioned on another thread several months back, but is applicable here. I have a couple Event BAS 20/20 8" monitors I use and always felt that they sounded good. Out of the advice on this forum I decided to try to add in the IK Multimedia ARC Studio solution (https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arcstudio/?pkey=arc-studio) by tuning the room and building a profile that flattens the curve, and WOW.... The BAS 20/20s sounded good before, but are considerably better now. I also noticed that when I'm building patches now our sound man has very few adjustments to make on the FOH console versus before. I'm not saying the Arc Studio can make everything perfect, but it made a huge difference with my monitors.
 
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