Thanks Austin Buddy, you fu.......

[vern]

Indeed. Completely uncalled for and over the line. You mean the way I was simply relaying my experience to someone else, and you pipe in accusing me of "Rumor mongering". Pots and kettles.

And thanks, Rex explained it already. I have no issue with the explanation. Like I said, it makes perfect sense.

 

[vern]

the free TonePack updates is what make the $99 a steal for 1000+ sounds in my opinion. Some customers have gotten 5 free updates of Naked Amps (from firmware 1, to version 5-6, to version 11-12, to version 15-16, to 18 to version 20 last year, (to 21 coming later this spring/summer) for example as firmwares change - all for their initial $99 investment when the first Axe-FX III first came out years back! Pretty sweet deal!

Enjoy!

This is one thing that I didn't get around to, which is what Joshua was alluding to. The cost of the presets. I guess it all depends on how you look at it. And whether you think something like this SHOULD be cheap. I can certainly appreciate not only the work involved, but in the years you put in to be able to make it a viable product in the first place. Let's also not forget that on the cheap end, we (including myself) dropped a thousand dollars on the "entry level" Fractal. I also like to think of the Live Gold pack as a masterclass in dialing in tones. Cuz let's face it, everything is out in the open, we're able to see exactly what was changed from the factory presets. All the numbers and settings are at our disposal.

Saying whether something like this is cheap enough or not, is the wrong way of looking at it to my thinking. Is the price of a hundred bucks justified given the extent and quality of the work? You damn straight. I'd pay it again without a second thought. Totally worth it.

 

[Cam Heiliger]

So, if anyone is interested, out of the nine LiveGold presets I have commandeered so far, I only left the bypassed drive block in three of them.
Powerball Engl
Dweezil's Bassman
StratSRV 1x15 Vibroverb

The StratSRV actually has two drive blocks, but one is bypassed. A Microboost drive block remains active, the settings are really low. I didn't change this drive at all.

I did try the test again, and even had my son give a listen. I made two copies of each preset, removed the drive block from one. With the two presets side by side, I was easily able to switch back and forth. He said he could hear a tiny difference, but couldn't put his finger on exactly what it was.

I suppose that now, I do have a vested interest in whether I hear it or not. Consciously or subconsciously. Because I now have a need to be right, whether I really hear the difference, or whether I simply have convinced myself I hear the difference!

I could go so far to say that they even feel a tiny bit different to play whether these particular presets have the drive block or not. But that would open up a whole new can of worms. And it'd give Greg Ferguson an opportunity to add another prick comment how I must have magic fingers now and I'm just saying bullshit for the benefit of clickbait.

One tangible thing we did notice during our little experiment was that the unit uses around 5-6 percent more cpu when a drive block is present and bypassed, then when there is no drive block at all. Maybe the experts can weigh in on that. If a bypassed drive block is basically behaving as a shunt, why is it using around five percent more cpu to do so? Does it take that much cpu to NOT have an effect on sound?

I suppose now I'm psychologically invested in these drive blocks (that I didn't want in the first place), so I'm just leaving the damn things in there for these three presets. The LiveGold presets are so efficient that 5 percent more usage doesn't matter anyway.

Rock on!

“There is no effect of drive block off on the tone. No secret sauce there!”

From Austin Buddy himself. There is zero effect on sound.

Greg is actually one of the most helpful and knowledgeable people on this forum. He is also a Fractal beta tester so I assume the company also believes that he is a valuable contributor both to the forum and to the units themselves.

I assume he referred to your comment on the drive blocks as “rumor mongering” because unsubstantiated claims have a tendency to take off on forums (and other public places) if not properly corrected quickly. That causes unnecessary headaches for moderators and other regular contributors trying to ensure that new users receive factual information about their new products.

So yes, your comment was unnecessary and out of bounds. People are here to help you yes, but also to make sure that everyone else is getting accurate information as well.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

“There is no effect of drive block off on the tone. No secret sauce there!”

From Austin Buddy himself. There is zero effect on sound.

Greg is actually one of the most helpful and knowledgeable people on this forum. He is also a Fractal beta tester so I assume the company also believes that he is a valuable contributor both to the forum and to the units themselves.

I assume he referred to your comment on the drive blocks as “rumor mongering” because unsubstantiated claims have a tendency to take off on forums (and other public places) if not properly corrected quickly. That causes unnecessary headaches for moderators and other regular contributors trying to ensure that new users receive factual information about their new products.

So yes, your comment was unnecessary and out of bounds. People are here to help you yes, but also to make sure that everyone else is getting accurate information as well.

Exactly and well said but I’m out of this conversation now.

 

[vern]

“There is no effect of drive block off on the tone. No secret sauce there!”

From Austin Buddy himself. There is zero effect on sound.

Greg is actually one of the most helpful and knowledgeable people on this forum. He is also a Fractal beta tester so I assume the company also believes that he is a valuable contributor both to the forum and to the units themselves.

I assume he referred to your comment on the drive blocks as “rumor mongering” because unsubstantiated claims have a tendency to take off on forums (and other public places) if not properly corrected quickly. That causes unnecessary headaches for moderators and other regular contributors trying to ensure that new users receive factual information about their new products.

So yes, your comment was unnecessary and out of bounds. People are here to help you yes, but also to make sure that everyone else is getting accurate information as well.

Point taken.

 

[Will Chen]

So, if anyone is interested, out of the nine LiveGold presets I have commandeered so far, I only left the bypassed drive block in three of them.
Powerball Engl
Dweezil's Bassman
StratSRV 1x15 Vibroverb

The StratSRV actually has two drive blocks, but one is bypassed. A Microboost drive block remains active, the settings are really low. I didn't change this drive at all.

I did try the test again, and even had my son give a listen. I made two copies of each preset, removed the drive block from one. With the two presets side by side, I was easily able to switch back and forth. He said he could hear a tiny difference, but couldn't put his finger on exactly what it was.

I suppose that now, I do have a vested interest in whether I hear it or not. Consciously or subconsciously. Because I now have a need to be right, whether I really hear the difference, or whether I simply have convinced myself I hear the difference!

I could go so far to say that they even feel a tiny bit different to play whether these particular presets have the drive block or not. But that would open up a whole new can of worms. And it'd give Greg Ferguson an opportunity to add another prick comment how I must have magic fingers now and I'm just saying bullshit for the benefit of clickbait.

One tangible thing we did notice during our little experiment was that the unit uses around 5-6 percent more cpu when a drive block is present and bypassed, then when there is no drive block at all. Maybe the experts can weigh in on that. If a bypassed drive block is basically behaving as a shunt, why is it using around five percent more cpu to do so? Does it take that much cpu to NOT have an effect on sound?

I suppose now I'm psychologically invested in these drive blocks (that I didn't want in the first place), so I'm just leaving the damn things in there for these three presets. The LiveGold presets are so efficient that 5 percent more usage doesn't matter anyway.

Rock on!

Do a reamped blind test and get back to us.

 

[vern]

Do a reamped blind test and get back to us.

Hey Will, I've never done any reamping in my life. I do have Cooper Carter's Masterclass and he touches on it in there. I'll have to go back and look at it again, I honestly don't remember what's all involved.

So when you say a "reamped blind" test, how exactly would you go about doing it? Are you simply saying that during the reamping I would switch back and forth between the drive block bypassed preset and the blockless preset? So when I'm laying down the track that will be reamped, does it have to be a direct signal? If it direct, doesn't that alter how you play, because the interaction with the entire amp chain is missing?

I have Logic, but haven't gotten around to connecting the FM3 to it.

 

[Will Chen]

Hey Will, I've never done any reamping in my life. I do have Cooper Carter's Masterclass and he touches on it in there. I'll have to go back and look at it again, I honestly don't remember what's all involved.

So when you say a "reamped blind" test, how exactly would you go about doing it? Are you simply saying that during the reamping I would switch back and forth between the drive block bypassed preset and the blockless preset? So when I'm laying down the track that will be reamped, does it have to be a direct signal? If it direct, doesn't that alter how you play, because the interaction with the entire amp chain is missing?

I have Logic, but haven't gotten around to connecting the FM3 to it.

Record a dry track. Reamp though preset with dirtboxes bypassed but in signal chain and without dirtboxes in signal chain. But really the blind test is unneeded as you can do a null test here (play both reamped tracks simultaneously with the phase flipped on one). I'd bet good money that as long as they are time aligned, the null test would result in absolute silence indicating the signals are exactly the same.

 

[vern]

Record a dry track. Reamp though preset with dirtboxes bypassed but in signal chain and without dirtboxes in signal chain. But really the blind test is unneeded as you can do a null test here (play both reamped tracks simultaneously with the phase flipped on one). I'd bet good money that as long as they are time aligned, the null test would result in absolute silence indicating the signals are exactly the same.

Ahh, the null test sounds interesting. I'll have to do that one. It'll take me a few days before I'm able to get this all set up.

 

[vern]

Okay, so here we are. This will all be a bit anti-climactic, but may be of a little interest to some. For others, they will simply say "I told you so" and be done with it.

Before I even get to the tests, let me first add an idea that I may think will shed light on how I was hearing a difference in the bypassed drive block vs no drive block debate. This isn't an excuse or defense, but simply what I think happened. First of all, halfway through the making the test samples, I realized I couldn't hear the difference anymore.

So allow me a brief interlude:

We have all read or heard stories that Covid dulls the taste, smell, hearing, etc of quite a few people that have it. But, I know for a fact, that Covid can also enhance the taste and smell in certain people. I'm one of those people. I've always had a sense of smell that was more acute than average. I realized this when I started dating, and I could smell a woman's natural odors a level below where her perfume was sitting at. I won't go into detail, but yes, some didn't get a second date because I didn't like how they smelled. And my wife is my wife because I love the way she smells; she never wears perfume anymore. Anyway, getting exposed to Covid heightened those senses even further. Taste and smell being linked, I can smell (and taste) Covid wafting in the air, surrounding someone's body like nasty odors in a cartoon. I can taste Covid attacking my taste buds when I'm being exposed to. Some foods, like mayo, have a sharp chemical taste when I'm in the midst of a bout of Covid. Other than this, I'm basically asymptomatic, or I don't get the usual symptoms people get.

I say all this, to question whether Covid temporarily heightened my sense of hearing. Or did it cause me to hear something that wasn't there? If we know Covid dulls hearing, is it out of the realm of possibility to think that it could also heighten it?

So halfway through doing the tests, I got over this latest bout of Covid that was starting when I first heard the difference between the bypassed drive presets.

I can't hear a difference now. Not at all. I ended up doing reamped tests on the three presets with the bypassed drive blocks. Doing a take for each preset, and then comping the two takes together at random intervals so when I played the comped take, it would switch back and forth between the bypassed drive block preset and the preset with no drive block multiple times. It sounded like one continuous take. You were all correct. I certainly can't hear a bit of difference now.

I tried doing the null test, but it didn't seem to work right. When I'd switch the polarity in Logic, it made a difference in sound, but not a huge difference. Either I wasn't doing it right, or the way that it's incorporated in Logic doesn't give the results that are expected. I gave up on the null test.

If anything productive came out of it? I learned how to reamp with the FM3 and Logic, as well as some additional variables in the FM3 that I never messed with before. It wasn't a complete waste of time.