Output Questions

C

ChiroVette

Inspired
Hey all. Okay, what started this is I am playing a pickup gig tomorrow, and the bass player was a little freaked out that I didn't want to use an "amp on stage", since I really don't need one with an FM9 Turbo. All I really need is Output 1 going into the PA via XLR, and the sound man can balance both my FOH sound as well as all our monitor mixes.

But my buddy asked me to bring an amp. So I compromised, not wanting to carry around my old Fender Twin with a pair of JBL E120s! Yeesh that is a beast! Don't get me wrong, NOTHING beats my Twin for my Jerry Garcia sounds, but the FM9 is close enough (I would say 85% as good as my Twin, maybe even 90%) that the juice just isn't worth the squeeze lugging an amp. So I am going to bring my 30+ pound JBL PRX and use it as a makeshift Amp-on-Stage, which should satisfy him, and I honestly don't give a crap enough to care about lugging it. Hell, he can have it on his side of the stage, opposite me, for all I care, because I don't need it.

Anyway, I re-watched some videos, including the awesome Rosh Roslin ones. I also looked in the manual, but now I am WAY more confused than I was before. lol I was really only watching Rosh to make sure that the signal from Output 1 and Output 2 are identical by default, and that simply sending Input 1 to the PA and input 2 to the FRFR speaker on stage would be a two minute solution.

The problem is, I am really confused.

First off, I DO NOT run effects modeling or almost anything in stereo. Mono is fine for my needs, at least for now. But unfortunately, I am really confused now after watching the video and reading the manual.

Because all my presets are purchased from Marco Fanton, except for my Garcia presets, which someone from the forum helped me with privately.

tl;dr - here are my confused questions.

When Rosh was demonstrating the settings in inputs 1 through 3, he opened a huge can of worms for me. I am at work now, but when I get home I have to connect the FM9 to my computer and go into the output settings. I think all my settings are default, but I'm not sure. But he was doing stuff like changing an input to stereo, mono (summed), etc. He was also showing how different settings maade various effects and combos sound different.

Look, plain and simple, until and unless I decide to go stereo, I just want to work with mono for simplicity's sake.

Do I have to go into all of the Marco Fanton settings I putchased, and the Garcia one I built with help, and start playing with the panning now to make things like digital delay sound optimal? Is there a non-default otput setting for Output 1 and 2 to optimize the sounds of all the Marco Fanton presets or my Garcia preset I need to change/tweak?

This will be a lot easier I think when I am home and have the unit on and in front of me.
 
You can probably just leave it set to the default of stereo and use one cable from each output. Try that first before messing with settings.
 
chris said:
You can probably just leave it set to the default of stereo and use one cable from each output. Try that first before messing with settings.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I was so hoping that would be the answer! I mean, I just want to make sure that if I am leaving both outputs on stereo, that I'm not screwing up my mono signals coming from Inputs 1 and 2. I know it sure seemed an easy fix using my XLR cables simply plugged into "Left", which worked even for all my old Boss GT units.

Edit: I was having this nightmare vision of needing to go into all or my Fanton presets (I think I bought like 10 of them) and being required to start tweaking settings like panning and other crap, which I don't even understand (well, panning I do) and try to fix problems to do with me only using mono outputs.
 
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Leaving it stereo and only sending 1 side will be a problem. Sum L+R is what I use, the other CopyLR I've had issues.
I run keys and guitar with mostly stereo FX and always gig mono. There's only been a couple times I had to change a stereo fx.
This way if there's room I'll use 2 frfr behind me for stereo, and still send FOH mono.
Sorry, more fuel to your fire......
 
wmich said:
Leaving it stereo and only sending 1 side will be a problem. Sum L+R is what I use, the other CopyLR I've had issues.
I run keys and guitar with mostly stereo FX and always gig mono. There's only been a couple times I had to change a stereo fx.
This way if there's room I'll use 2 frfr behind me for stereo, and still send FOH mono.
Sorry, more fuel to your fire......
Click to expand...

Okay...so, this is what I was worried about when watching Rosh's video. Seriously, I'm almost tempted to just leave it as it is, as @chris suggested. Because I'm not sure what "problems" I am causing. Seriously, what problem am I causing? This is how I have always run my FM9. It even further freaked me out when Rosh started going into the settings and talked about how he had to play with the panning for each and every effect in the preset! Yeesh. I am so not doing any of that lol. God knows what else he was doing in that video regarding summing/Mono/Stereo/frfr/CopyLR....etc. Because I literally had to shut the video off less than halfway through. I don't get any of this.

I just want to plug my guitar in, turn on the FM9, and play the gig or practice. That's the extent of the work I want to do at this point with playing with settings. Oh, well, I am willing to adjust the volume knob on Output 1 hahahaha.

I say a prayer of thanks for Marco Fanton, being able to just buy all his presets I want, or I wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes with the FM9. I am shuddering imagining having to build presets from the ground up. I would have sold this thing months ago.
 
My question is "What exactly do you want to send to your onstage amp?"

Will the amp be the only monitor onstage?
Will you also use wedge monitors for onstage monitoring?
Will the guitar amp be used for tone, or only as a way to make the FM9 louder?

Options:
Use FOH and monitors for full guitar monitoring, and onstage amp as dry only - this is common for guitar "feel"onstage.
Full guitar with effects in guitar amp, no onstage monitors.
Guitar amp on one side with one channel of effects (L only, for example), wedge on the other side of stage with other channel (R only).

The easiest IMO is to have OUT2 go to FOH in stereo XLR and OUT1 to your amp via 1/4". In global audio settings you can set OUT2 as stereo and OUT1 as mono L+R.
 
elvis said:
My question is "What exactly do you want to send to your onstage amp?"
Click to expand...

It's not really an onstage amp, per se. Honestly, I don't need one. I am perfectly comfortable just sending one signal to the board, and letting the sound man (even if it's me doing sound from stage) send FOH to the audience and a monitor mix to me. I don't have a problem with FRFR or with my FM9 going just to FOH and a monitor. I only want the amp on stage thing to placate a bass player who will freak out if I show up and all he hears of my lead guitar is through his monitor. That's what started all this for me. lol

elvis said:
Will the amp be the only monitor onstage?
Will you also use wedge monitors for onstage monitoring?
Will the guitar amp be used for tone, or only as a way to make the FM9 louder?
Click to expand...

I want to send the exact same signal to the FOH as to the wedge monitor I am bringing to patronize the bass player. Since he is all but demanding I have an "amp". So I want what is going to the board to ALSO go to the wedge. Which is why my initial thought is just use output 1 and 2, set them identical, then one XLR to the sound man from Output 1 and the other to my pretend amp from Output 2.

Oh, and yes, I will have a wedge monitor in front of from an aux send from the board. And yes, to make things even more confusing, I will be getting my FM9/guitar both to my monitor and to my pretend-amp.

elvis said:
Options:
Use FOH and monitors for full guitar monitoring, and onstage amp as dry only - this is common for guitar "feel"onstage.
Full guitar with effects in guitar amp, no onstage monitors.
Guitar amp on one side with one channel of effects (L only, for example), wedge on the other side of stage with other channel (R only).

The easiest IMO is to have OUT2 go to FOH in stereo XLR and OUT1 to your amp via 1/4". In global audio settings you can set OUT2 as stereo and OUT1 as mono L+R.
Click to expand...

This is confusing to me. I just want a "pretend amplifier" which I am using a wedge monitor for, and a wedge monitor provided by the sound man. I was almost considering just buying an XLR signal splitter, then splitting output 1 to the sound man (board) and to my FRFR-pretend-amp-on-stage, but I wasn't sure how this would work.

In any event...I need the exact sound to my pretend-amp (behind me as if it was an amp) that is going to the FOH and my stage monitor (in front of my vocal mic)
 
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Confused Kevin James GIF by TV Land
 
1st goal: Send the same signal to Out 1 (FOH) and Out 2 (stage speaker)

set Output 2 to copy Output 1.

2nd goal: have the mono sound good

send one cable from each output and don't change anything
 
chris said:
1st goal: Send the same signal to Out 1 (FOH) and Out 2 (stage speaker)

set Output 2 to copy Output 1.

2nd goal: have the mono sound good

send one cable from each output and don't change anything
Click to expand...

Yeah this is what I am going to go with. Although, I will say two things: if and when I ever decide to do anything with stereo on my guitar and the FM9, I think I'm going to commit suicide. Second, THANK GOD FOR MARCO FANTON!!!! Because if not for buying his Santana, Lukather, Gilmore, Acoustic, Knophler, Carleton, and several others, I would literally be dead in the water with the FM9.

It's weird too, and nothing against Fractal. This shit is all on me. I am pretty tech savvy. I built both my bedroom and living room home theater systems from scratch, I build all my own computers, and I am the guy all my friends and family go to for help with their devices. Yet, I cannot make heads nor tails of the settings in the FM9 Edit app or on the FM9 itself. It's always been like that with me and music devices. For al the years I used them, I barely scratched the surface of all my Boss/Roland multi-effects units, because all the settings look like hieroglyphics to me.

Thanks again! Yours is the simplest solution, so for better or worse, you had me at "Leave it just as it is!" :D
 
Oh one more question on this! It just occurred to me when I decided to watch the rest of that Rosh video. Do I have to add another Output block to all my presets in order to use Output 2?
 
ChiroVette said:
Oh one more question on this! It just occurred to me when I decided to watch the rest of that Rosh video. Do I have to add another Output block to all my presets in order to use Output 2?
Click to expand...
No. You can copy out 1 to out 2 in the settings in FM9 Edit or in the I/O or Global settings on the unit. Can remember which.
Out 2 should say "copy out 1", or something close.
If you want to add a block that only runs on out 2, then you probably want to add an out 2 block.

This is from memory. Could be slightly off.
 
Chromatizm said:
So contact him.
He's a great guy, and your question doesn't seem that complicated for someone as knowledgeable as him especially when he knows his presets intimately.
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@Marco Fanton is a busy guy, and I have already bothered him with a ton of questions in email through his site, which he answered privately already. Also, my questions weren't directly about his presets, per se, and the people in this forum are incredibly knowledgeable and helpful, so I asked here first.

When I got home I tried copying Output 1 to Output 2, and it seems to be working fine. I also left the outputs in Stereo, even though I am only playing in mono, just not to shake the tree too much. I didn't want to start playing around with one of the mono settings like Copy L -> R or Sum L-> R. I did notice that the output levels were all at the default, which was -10 db, so after finishing Rosh's video, I raised them to +4 db as he suggested.

I also love the fact that this method suggested by the fine people here has the virtue of allowing me independent control to the FOH/monitors and to the my FRFR JBL PRX I will use as a pretend-on-stage-amp. Can't wait to play tonight and see how it all shakes out.
 
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