Out 1 block clipping

Anton Karelin

Anton Karelin

Inspired
Hi guys!
The Out 1 block shows a very hot signal. The OUT 1 CLIP indicator lights up on the front panel.

2 - block Out 1.png

Here is In 1 block:
1 - block In 1.png

The signal is trim on the recording like this:
5 - clipping track with In1-Out1.png

D.I. signal is normal:
6 - DI.png

I have DiMarzio Dual Sound (Super Distortion) pickup.
Setup - I/O - Input 1 Pad is set to 12 dB (sometimes touches red).
Here is my settings:
4 - audio settings.png
 
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Normal. That’s how it processes audio. Reduce the Output in the Input block to not clip if you don’t need that strong of a signal.
 
chris said:
Normal. That’s how it processes audio. Reduce the Output in the Input block to not clip if you don’t need that strong of a signal.
Click to expand...
So I guess in the scenario posted this would be if you were using the FM3 just as an audio interface - and using a VST for amp modelling etc.

I've often wondered if reducing the output of the input in the FM3 the same as reducing the input of an audio interface such as a Focusrite?
 
Well at the exact “+10” level there, it’s not clipping yet. It’s basically a full level digital signal since Out 1 isn’t Unity but up to +20dB I believe.
 
Yeah i've noticed this too, and this was also mentioned in the livestream of Chris Baseford, and he corrected that in the OUT block, but that depends on your needs like @chris said. I guess it's just the way it is. I ran a few times in this when bypassing the amp and the cab block when reamping or using cablab, oh my ears!
 
so a further question,

if input 1 (output in block set to 0)->output 1 and the DAW sees a full digital signal - if i wanted to use a VST like NAM or Neural I would have to turn down the output in the input block so that the VST is optimised.

If I use an Amp block between input 1 and output 1 I don't have to touch anything and it sounds great, so what level is the amp block seeing from input 1?
 
Routing Input 1 into Output 1 directly as the OP, does not give you a pure DI signal, as the Output block boosts the signal considerably. And that's why most Amps that we choose in the Amp block have their levels set to -12 or -18 as default...To achieve a clean, untouched DI signal, you should set your DAW to record from FM3's USB IN 3, as it is a plain, direct copy of the signal from the Input 1. That's what Fractal recommend for Reamping, and if you want to use any external modeling plugins in your DAW, you should use this method too.
 
Marcelo Bessa said:
Routing Input 1 into Output 1 directly as the OP, does not give you a pure DI signal, as the Output block boosts the signal considerably. And that's why most Amps that we choose in the Amp block have their levels set to -12 or -18 as default...
Click to expand...
I can't say for sure, but i think you should have said that the INPUT block boosts the signal.
(Let skip the part for reamping, because i mentioned that as an example...)
 
md1234 said:
I can't say for sure, but i think you should have said that the INPUT block boosts the signal.
(Let skip the part for reamping, because i mentioned that as an example...)
Click to expand...
No, it's the Output Block that boosts the signal. Also, the Input block only works when connected into an Output block in the grid... In your DAW, if you choose as your record source USB IN1, you're recording the signal that's being processed in the grid and being routed into OUT1 block... Although, if you choose to record from USB IN3 you're recording a direct, clean and untouched feed from your FM3's Input 1.
 
Here's a screenshot that I took to reply another post where we were discussing something similar:

Screenshot 2024-01-02 at 15.44.05.png

This is my DAW of choice (Logic Pro X), and I set the top channel record source to be FM3's USB IN 3... The bottom channel is set to record from FM3's USB IN 1.... In my FM3 grid, I had only IN1 connected into OUT1, as the first image of the OP. I recorded these two tracks simultaneously, and here we can see how much the OUT1 block boosts the signal when it's set at 0dB

The USB IN3 is the one that should be used whenever you want to record a DI, as it's the pure unboosted signal from your guitar.
 
As i said, i was not talking about reamping (and points of concern around that). I was trying to say that when actually playing the guitar (and therefore also when reamping is setup correct), the OUT block still can clip when it is directly connected to the IN block.
 
I've asked a bunch of people about this, and being a recording engineer where a signal in and out of any device without any processing should be the same level, it doesn't quite make sense to me. But Fractal insists the way it currently works is correct and it obviously makes sense to them. Maybe it has something to do with optimizing the input for all the various amp models, etc. Not really sure. All I know is, in order to get my clean DI to be aprox. the same level the amp input would see, I need to trim the output down, basically all the way on the output block.
 
cbaseford said:
I've asked a bunch of people about this, and being a recording engineer where a signal in and out of any device without any processing should be the same level, it doesn't quite make sense to me. But Fractal insists the way it currently works is correct and it obviously makes sense to them. Maybe it has something to do with optimizing the input for all the various amp models, etc. Not really sure. All I know is, in order to get my clean DI to be aprox. the same level the amp input would see, I need to trim the output down, basically all the way on the output block.
Click to expand...
If you want a clean DI use Output 2 on FM3 or Output 3 on FM9 or Output 3 or 4 on Axe Fx III and set that Output to Copy Input 1... That will send the exact input to output.

Or, add the respective Output block to the grid... And set that output knob fully clockwise for unity gain (and on FM3 make sure Output 2 is set for Unity Gain mode not Line Level.
 
cbaseford said:
I've asked a bunch of people about this, and being a recording engineer where a signal in and out of any device without any processing should be the same level, it doesn't quite make sense to me.
Click to expand...
Out 1 is not unity gain. Out 2 can be. Use out 2 set to unity gain.
 
cbaseford said:
I've asked a bunch of people about this, and being a recording engineer where a signal in and out of any device without any processing should be the same level, it doesn't quite make sense to me. But Fractal insists the way it currently works is correct and it obviously makes sense to them. Maybe it has something to do with optimizing the input for all the various amp models, etc. Not really sure. All I know is, in order to get my clean DI to be aprox. the same level the amp input would see, I need to trim the output down, basically all the way on the output block.
Click to expand...

Putting that mysterious out gain in the grid certainly causes a fair bit of confusion, but it does have the advantage of giving you digital control over the gain. Personally, I would have just made the Out 1 block level parameter default to 20dB instead of hiding the gain in the block. That would accomplish the same thing, but that would make it clear what's going on. Failing that, simply documenting the 20 dB gain in that block in the user manual would probably help alleviate some of the confusion.
 
chris said:
Out 1 is not unity gain. Out 2 can be. Use out 2 set to unity gain.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I’ll try swapping to Output 2. Again, having been accustomed to and XLR line level equipment being truly unity gain, this whole concept of level set at 0, but having a big gain bump is a little strange. Let alone having one set of outputs have it and one doesn’t , without any visual or labeled indication of it.
 
Never knew or realized that the max output gain of the device (20-22 dB) is applied on the grid.
 
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