Open-Mic Question

[bleujazz3]

Hello, all,

Sometime this summer one of my goals is to play along with the local open-mic house band (2 to 3 songs, max). Now that the bar scene is beginning to accommodate more open-mics, a question has cropped up.

Most all open-mics have a sign-up sheet. Perhaps a light meal and a beer later, we invariably check the sign-up sheet for when it's our turn on stage.

Here's the question: Knowing that you'll only play 2 to 3 songs, does one 1) choose a time towards open-mic closing to allow for gear set-up towards closing, or 2) arrive early and connect your gear, knowing that you can power down your gear without disconnecting until venue close, or 3) bring a small combo amp with modest effects board that will enable your 3 song showcase?

My point is, any of the 3 scenarios might work, but only #3 negates bringing my FM9/FRFR gear. If that's the solution, is enjoying the benefits of my FM9 relegated to only home music use?

How might any of you who have not been on stage live recently, but share a common goal towards working their way back onto stage as a regular performer might view this? If possible, within your reply please describe why you might choose a Duo 24 board and FRFR compared to a 1x12 combo and mini-effects board, or vice-versa?

Please forgive my naivety, it's been many years since my time on stage with a regular house band, with me and a lead guitarist closing out the night as bar patrons pack it in. (It used to be I'd arrive an hour before regular band arrival time and help set-up the PA. The house band would play for an hour or so, then would invite guest musicians to sit in while house band members grabbed a drink. After the guests played 3 or 4 songs, others went in/out of rotation until an hour before closing.

Considering this how things most often occurred (small combo or not), it may be wise for me to consider what is most familiar, and takes the least amount of time to set-up/tune-up prior to being on stage. TBH, I don't mind sitting amidst sweaty patrons who have actively been dancing or drinking. My feeling is that by paying attention and doing my warm-ups, the music will flow more easily.

 

[chris]

in my experience being in the band hosting, most people play through the gear already on stage, and at most bring their own guitar.

sometimes, there's time allowed to setup a SMALL/QUICK setup for pedals etc, but usually again through house amp or speaker. fm9, power, guitar in and xlr out should be fast enough for most places. get volume real quick, and then go.

it depends on how the open mic is arranged, but bringing a full gig setup to one of those is usually a bit overkill. it's more about being in the moment vs playing perfectly with your gear like you would in a gig situation.

again totally depends tho. go look, watch, and ask.

 

[bleujazz3]

in my experience being in the band hosting, most people play through the gear already on stage, and at most bring their own guitar.

sometimes, there's time allowed to setup a SMALL/QUICK setup for pedals etc, but usually again through house amp or speaker. fm9, power, guitar in and xlr out should be fast enough for most places. get volume real quick, and then go.

it depends on how the open mic is arranged, but bringing a full gig setup to one of those is usually a bit overkill. it's more about being in the moment vs playing perfectly with your gear like you would in a gig situation.

again totally depends tho. go look, watch, and ask.

Chris, thanks for your reply...

Years ago, the stage was large enough to bring in my gear and set up behind the band host's position. More recently, the venue changed hands, did some renovations, and repositioned the stage into the far rear corner of the venue. The drummer and bassist occupy the far corner, the two rhythm/lead guitarist/singers are more centrally located. The far left stage has room for gear and tables.

I think I'll need to ask the host next time the same question in briefer context, simply because he doesn't have a lot of time to chat standing around while his gear needs packing in. Might be helpful to include a photo of the Duo 24 board and the FRFR so he might compare the combo amp, as well.

The only reason I'd need the FM9 is for the tone variety. It would definitely be easier to lug/set-up the combo amp, but my choice of songs would be limited compared to the FM9, which provides more versatility. The trade-off is convenience over wider audience appeal.

 

[DaveO]

2 cents here, Id say get there early, find the sign up sheet person , get on and then slip them some cash to ask for a spot when peeps have packed the house... then play your best stuff!

 

[elvis]

For 2-3 songs, tone variety seems to be an inappropriate goal. It's also a way to make the house band's life more difficult. They have an easier time rolling with less variation.

Showcase your playing.

 

[Hopper_]

I can’t see how a combo amp + pedalboard would be easier/quicker than an FM9.

I’d just show up with my FM9 and either plug into the PA or into a back line amp and disable the amp and cab blocks.

 

[bleujazz3]

For 2-3 songs, tone variety seems to be an inappropriate goal. It's also a way to make the house band's life more difficult. They have an easier time rolling with less variation.

Showcase your playing.

That was part of of my concern. My thought was to plant 2 or 3 songs with some amp/effects variation in order to showcase my playing, not limit it with combo amp with an overdrive and amp reverb. Just enough to let folks know my skill level is beyond a 12 bar blues.

I can’t see how a combo amp + pedalboard would be easier/quicker than an FM9.

I’d just show up with my FM9 and either plug into the PA or into a back line amp and disable the amp and cab blocks.

My feelings are based on knowing where the house band asks guest to store their gear prior to stage time. I've no problem plugging into a 8" FRFR for a 35 foot room. At home, my FRFR is less than half-powered and my FM9 Master Output Level at 11 o'clock for a 15 foot room. It might be entirely possible to plug into their PA, but not for electric guitar amplification. The house PA is solely used for vocals and acoustic guitar. The FM9 might prove too powerful and overload the Behringer.

Next week a buddy of mine will play his 2 to 3 songs, whereas I might need to speak with the open-mic host and ask about the FM9 for future reference. Photos will be shared that will provide the host with an adequate idea of space constraints.

 

[bleujazz3]

As a heads up, the venue typically keeps 3 open spots for walk-in guests after 8 PM. All I might need do is sign-up at the 8:15 time slot. That way, the bulk of the crowd will have had dinner and their fill of fun. The break between 1st and 3rd walk-ins will allow plenty of time to set up my Duo 24, power things on, and tune up quickly.

 

[Hopper_]

The venue arrangements for open mic are different than what I’ve experienced. I’ve only done a few and it was just acoustic and vocals. Not seen a house band at an open mic, sounds fun.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your post in wanting to respect everyone’s time and space.

I don’t believe the FM9 will overpower any PA unless you’ve leveled all your presets to the max, in which case I still can’t imagine doing any damage to the PA if you start with the output level of the FM9 at zero and very slowly turn up the volume.

 

[chris]

That was part of of my concern. My thought was to plant 2 or 3 songs with some amp/effects variation in order to showcase my playing, not limit it with combo amp with an overdrive and amp reverb. Just enough to let folks know my skill level is beyond a 12 bar blues.

this is sounding more like an audition than open mic. I think the goal of open mic is more about the vibe and not the specific talent level, but again I don’t know the venue.

 

[bleujazz3]

this is sounding more like an audition than open mic. I think the goal of open mic is more about the vibe and not the specific talent level, but again I don’t know the venue.

Perhaps in my mind it's about my performance level. The talent ranges from beginner to late intermediate. My hope is to put in enough practice so that in about 2 years time I'll be well into the late intermediate stage. With that is the acceptance and recognition that goes along with one's chops being up to snuff to get the gig and be asked back to sit in again.

Yeah, there's a small amount of "hubris" that goes with being able to play well. Up to this point, I've personally not put in enough practice time to say any of that, but it makes sense that now I've got a targeted lesson plan, with specific goals as a rhythm and lead guitarist, this will be possible in the next year or so.

TBH, the open-mic is often a springboard for emerging talent at local folk or bluesfests. My goal is to improve my jazz chording and rhythm, and later connect the dots with improved lead lines. While my goal is not to tour the local jazz scene, it might be enjoyable to play at a semi-pro level at open-mics and sit in with the house bands there just to be known among local guitarists as a decent player.

 

[elvis]

That was part of of my concern. My thought was to plant 2 or 3 songs with some amp/effects variation in order to showcase my playing, not limit it with combo amp with an overdrive and amp reverb. Just enough to let folks know my skill level is beyond a 12 bar blues.

You misunderstand. Your playing showcases your playing, not effects. The best players I've seen play with basic tone and rip it up.

 

[chris]

Perhaps in my mind it's about my performance level. The talent ranges from beginner to late intermediate. My hope is to put in enough practice so that in about 2 years time I'll be well into the late intermediate stage. With that is the acceptance and recognition that goes along with one's chops being up to snuff to get the gig and be asked back to sit in again.

Yeah, there's a small amount of "hubris" that goes with being able to play well. Up to this point, I've personally not put in enough practice time to say any of that, but it makes sense that now I've got a targeted lesson plan, with specific goals as a rhythm and lead guitarist, this will be possible in the next year or so.

TBH, the open-mic is often a springboard for emerging talent at local folk or bluesfests. My goal is to improve my jazz chording and rhythm, and later connect the dots with improved lead lines. While my goal is not to tour the local jazz scene, it might be enjoyable to play at a semi-pro level at open-mics and sit in with the house bands there just to be known among local guitarists as a decent player.

Nice man. Well good luck, get up there and show em what you got!

 

[bleujazz3]

You misunderstand. Your playing showcases your playing, not effects. The best players I've seen play with basic tone and rip it up.

Perhaps that's the problem. My basic combo amp is a clean platform 1x12 30W combo that currently has one low/moderate overdrive pedal on a mini-effect board. Great for clean playing, but unforgiving. If I were playing more distorted, I'd be "hiding behind the amp for lack of chops." My playing needs practice, no question.

Just contacted the venue host to discuss possibilities of the Duo 24 and a decent FRFR. The realm of EOB tone is more widely possible with the FM9 than the small combo amp. Will work with both scenarios and determine what will prove best solution soon.

 

[bleujazz3]

Open-mic host says to bring the Duo 24 & FRFR. Might be possible to put me thru the PA for sound reinforcement, but the FRFR may prove adequate.

Not sure what songs will be on tap, but will let you know after. Semi-stoked about this...and have my 2nd thoughts as well...hoping for the best and will need to practice thoroughly before stepping up on stage.

 

[Hopper_]

Open-mic host says to bring the Duo 24 & FRFR. Might be possible to put me thru the PA for sound reinforcement, but the FRFR may prove adequate.

Not sure what songs will be on tap, but will let you know after. Semi-stoked about this...and have my 2nd thoughts as well...hoping for the best and will need to practice thoroughly before stepping up on stage.

If they mic the house band amp for PA I’m sure they will want to snag an output from the FM9, my guess is your rig might sound better if they do.
Good luck!

 

[bleujazz3]

The venue arrangements for open mic are different than what I’ve experienced. I’ve only done a few and it was just acoustic and vocals. Not seen a house band at an open mic, sounds fun.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your post in wanting to respect everyone’s time and space.

I don’t believe the FM9 will overpower any PA unless you’ve leveled all your presets to the max, in which case I still can’t imagine doing any damage to the PA if you start with the output level of the FM9 at zero and very slowly turn up the volume.

Our local open-mics in CT are kinda neat. Usually consists of a house band that introduces the open-mic with a half hour to 45 min of song covers, then launches into the guest list with 2 or 3 songs per each guest, depending on the length of the list. The open-mics are both electric and acoustic; most acoustic players just plug straight into the house PA via ¼". It is required that an acoustic guitar also have some form of pickup built-in. The electric players bring their own small combo or might plug into someone else's amp with their own small effects board.

TBH, this may be one of the first times amp modeling will have ever graced our open-mics, and I feel privileged to be one of the first few advents that will be showcasing my FM9.

Thanks for your kind words about respecting others.

Yet a question if I may, where do your preset levels resides master volume-wise? Most of mine are 11 o'clock FM9 Master Output 2 Level and perhaps -2 dB default FRFR output level.

 

[bleujazz3]

If they mic the house band amp for PA I’m sure they will want to snag an output from the FM9, my guess is your rig might sound better if they do.
Good luck!

Yes, sir!

My Duo 24 is config'd with a ¼" or XLR output on one side that can quickly connect to the house PA. I'm not too sure how well my vocals will sound with this, but what's more important is the recognizability of the songs. If my vocals aren't clearly heard, that will be my next project, rather than worry about my chops...

 

[Hopper_]

Our local open-mics in CT are kinda neat. Usually consists of a house band that introduces the open-mic with a half hour to 45 min of song covers, then launches into the guest list with 2 or 3 songs per each guest, depending on the length of the list. The open-mics are both electric and acoustic; most acoustic players just plug straight into the house PA via ¼". It is required that an acoustic guitar also have some form of pickup built-in. The electric players bring their own small combo or might plug into someone else's amp with their own small effects board.

TBH, this may be one of the first times amp modeling will have ever graced our open-mics, and I feel privileged to be one of the first few advents that will be showcasing my FM9.

Thanks for your kind words about respecting others.

Yet a question if I may, where do your preset levels resides master volume-wise? Most of mine are 11 o'clock FM9 Master Output 2 Level and perhaps -2 dB default FRFR output level.

Just to be clear, I mean the preset leveling feature in the editor. Command + L if you’re on a Mac to see what levels your presets are hitting.

I like to run mine a bit hotter than most. Most people (and recommend by Fractal themselves and in the manual) say to target 0db if you were strumming at a moderate level. I do very little rhythm/chords in my music (think vulfpeck style guitar) so I like to run mine closer to about +3db on the preset level feature.

In the global settings I run my output at +4dbu and the actual output 1 I usually run around 10-12 o’clock. I like to give a fairly healthy signal to wherever I’m sending signal to. My thought is that I don’t necessarily want to put the FoH consoles preamps to work, in the case that they are using some board with bad sounding preamps. So if I give them a loud enough signal (that’s not clipping internally) they won’t need to run their preamps very hot.
Idk if that’s even logical but it’s how I’ve always approached it for some reason.

 

[bleujazz3]

...In the global settings I run my output at +4dbu and the actual output 1 I usually run around 10-12 o’clock. I like to give a fairly healthy signal to wherever I’m sending signal to. My thought is that I don’t necessarily want to put the FoH consoles preamps to work, in the case that they are using some board with bad sounding preamps. So if I give them a loud enough signal (that’s not clipping internally) they won’t need to run their preamps very hot.
Idk if that’s even logical but it’s how I’ve always approached it for some reason.

Thanks for your response. I've heard others mention running their global settings at either -10dB or +4 dB. Although I've forgotten why, my recollection was that one setting was for line level instruments regards recording, the +4 dB was for sound reinforcement. Because I usually don't record, it may well be worth looking into the +4 dB increase.

IIRC, the venue's PA mixer can handle the +4 load, but I'll be sure to ask the house band host if that's where my level needs to be.