paulmapp8306
Fractal Fanatic
Well, I have spent the last 8 months using an Art SLA-1 bridged in to my VHT 2x12 Fat bottom cab. I have tried FRFR a few times but havent really liked it. It didnt sound like I wanted it to at all. I kept my VHT amp for 6 monhts and used that to compare my patches to (along with a friends Orange Thunderverb kept in the same room) to make sure I was in the right ballpark and obviously the FRFR sound wasnt the same.
TBH my personal PA is pretty budget - being Wharfedale EXP Powered PA - 2 x 12" tops and a 15" Sub. This isnt idea for monitoring duties either with theose 15" drivers.
Ive dont some recording over the last month direct into Pro-Tools and have liked the results - SO - I decided to try FRFR again.
I Mic'd up my Cab (On my Mostly used Fryett High Patch) through my Wharfedales with a backing track on MP3. It took a good 1/2 hour to get a sound I liked out of the PA. I have a V30 and a G12H in the cab, so positioned the mic on both speakers, and in different positions - and used a Sure Bete 57 as my mic. I did this so I could hear what a mic'd cab should/does sound like.
Well, I then turned on the Cab sims (from the same patch which Id used to record) and found the sound was better straight off the bat - tweeked the desk a little (didnt want to change my Patch at this time) and it sounded really good. Compared to the mic'd cab the Bass was tighter, the trebble was less harsh and some of the mids that sounded a little nasely wernt there. Compared to the unmic'd cab there was a lot more bottom end - more like a 4x12 - and there was more cut in the upper frequencies.
As I no longer have my VHT amp to use as a comparison, the different sounds (FRFR v amp) were less right and wrong as just different.
I tried other patches Id put Cab sims on, but in all those cases the Micd cab sounded better - BUT I hadnt worked the patches there - just put a suitable cab and mic sim on. These will sound better with some work obviously. The best results here were just the Amp/Cab as it just seemed more natural. Also being cleaner there was more bass comming from the cab. Not surprising really as these patches had been designed fo this method.
Now this was playing to a backing track - to simulate FOH for a fully mic'd band. Playing with my band at rehursals and the SS amp/Cab setup sounds better accross the board. I put this down to the low end thump from live drums and Bass meaning the amps middly sound sits in the mix. Through a PA you loose this thump and the bass on the guitar is emphasised slightly, so the amp/cab just sounded odd.
My conclusions are this.
1. For recording use Cab/Mic sims and record direct (predictably).
2. If you play at venues where the band is fully mic'd (seems usual in the states - not so in the UK)the best results are to be had with a FRFR set-up (direct to FOH and a FRFR monitor). This gives the best "PA" sound/mix and has lower on stage noise. It does sound different to what your used to on stage, but thats not a bad thing - just takes some getting used to.
3. If you play where only the vocals, or maybe the kick drum goes through the PA (most pub venues in the UK), a real Amp/Cab (ss or valve) is better. It sits in the backline better than a FRFR sound. Mixing the real backling (bass, other guitars, drums) with a direct FRFR guitar sound doesnt seem quite right to me.
Now - I have a decision to make. Im going to have to duplicate my patches so I have a amp/cab set and a recording/FRFR set. Thats no problem. BUT I need a FRFR monitoring solution for on stage. There are several options here which I can investigate along with a KH D.A.R.T monitor that is avalable locally.
However, as I have the Art SLA-1 to power my cab anyway, would I be better to go for a decent passive monitor and use the Art to power it? or get a decent powered monitoring solution (the HK, Verve, QSC, Atomic FRFR etc). Financially the Passive monitor is better and I wouldnt be carrying the Art in the rack when it wasnt needed - but Ive seen no recomendations here. As for sound quality, which would be better? I want the best "sounding" solution and if thats a powered rig then fine, if not Im quite happy with a passive solution.
Any help in this next stage of my Axe Journey is appreciated.
TBH my personal PA is pretty budget - being Wharfedale EXP Powered PA - 2 x 12" tops and a 15" Sub. This isnt idea for monitoring duties either with theose 15" drivers.
Ive dont some recording over the last month direct into Pro-Tools and have liked the results - SO - I decided to try FRFR again.
I Mic'd up my Cab (On my Mostly used Fryett High Patch) through my Wharfedales with a backing track on MP3. It took a good 1/2 hour to get a sound I liked out of the PA. I have a V30 and a G12H in the cab, so positioned the mic on both speakers, and in different positions - and used a Sure Bete 57 as my mic. I did this so I could hear what a mic'd cab should/does sound like.
Well, I then turned on the Cab sims (from the same patch which Id used to record) and found the sound was better straight off the bat - tweeked the desk a little (didnt want to change my Patch at this time) and it sounded really good. Compared to the mic'd cab the Bass was tighter, the trebble was less harsh and some of the mids that sounded a little nasely wernt there. Compared to the unmic'd cab there was a lot more bottom end - more like a 4x12 - and there was more cut in the upper frequencies.
As I no longer have my VHT amp to use as a comparison, the different sounds (FRFR v amp) were less right and wrong as just different.
I tried other patches Id put Cab sims on, but in all those cases the Micd cab sounded better - BUT I hadnt worked the patches there - just put a suitable cab and mic sim on. These will sound better with some work obviously. The best results here were just the Amp/Cab as it just seemed more natural. Also being cleaner there was more bass comming from the cab. Not surprising really as these patches had been designed fo this method.
Now this was playing to a backing track - to simulate FOH for a fully mic'd band. Playing with my band at rehursals and the SS amp/Cab setup sounds better accross the board. I put this down to the low end thump from live drums and Bass meaning the amps middly sound sits in the mix. Through a PA you loose this thump and the bass on the guitar is emphasised slightly, so the amp/cab just sounded odd.
My conclusions are this.
1. For recording use Cab/Mic sims and record direct (predictably).
2. If you play at venues where the band is fully mic'd (seems usual in the states - not so in the UK)the best results are to be had with a FRFR set-up (direct to FOH and a FRFR monitor). This gives the best "PA" sound/mix and has lower on stage noise. It does sound different to what your used to on stage, but thats not a bad thing - just takes some getting used to.
3. If you play where only the vocals, or maybe the kick drum goes through the PA (most pub venues in the UK), a real Amp/Cab (ss or valve) is better. It sits in the backline better than a FRFR sound. Mixing the real backling (bass, other guitars, drums) with a direct FRFR guitar sound doesnt seem quite right to me.
Now - I have a decision to make. Im going to have to duplicate my patches so I have a amp/cab set and a recording/FRFR set. Thats no problem. BUT I need a FRFR monitoring solution for on stage. There are several options here which I can investigate along with a KH D.A.R.T monitor that is avalable locally.
However, as I have the Art SLA-1 to power my cab anyway, would I be better to go for a decent passive monitor and use the Art to power it? or get a decent powered monitoring solution (the HK, Verve, QSC, Atomic FRFR etc). Financially the Passive monitor is better and I wouldnt be carrying the Art in the rack when it wasnt needed - but Ive seen no recomendations here. As for sound quality, which would be better? I want the best "sounding" solution and if thats a powered rig then fine, if not Im quite happy with a passive solution.
Any help in this next stage of my Axe Journey is appreciated.
