New Axe FX II XL and Mark IV setup

J

JoeM.

Member
Hi Friends.

My Axe FX II is expected to be delivered on Friday and I wanted to ask for recommendations on an optimal setup using a Mark IV amp. While I love my Mark IV I wanted to also be able to explore the cab presets in the FX II and fiddle around with them. I was wondering if I should set the back of the Mark IV for solely clean output and then use the Axe FX through the FX loop send/return jacks etc. I also would like to have the option of using my Mark IV distortion if I choose (since I love the tone). I read from other posts by using a monitor it would be the optimal setup but I cannot afford to buy one at this time since I have a Majesty coming in August.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

JoeM.
 
Hi Joe
wavey.gif


Wish I could offer some thoughts for you, but I haven't been near a conventional amp for almost two decades, so don't have much info to give you!
laughing.gif


The only thing I can say is that I've run direct to PA & Monitors in all that time and with the developments in the Axe II, I certainly don't feel like I'm personally missing out on any amp / cab options


Welcome to the Fractal Forum though and I'm sure someone with more direct experience will chip soon
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My advice: try it all ways! Chances are pretty good you will switch setups a few times.

I had first got an Axe FX Standard, the idea at the time was use it to practice with (in my house) and have the ability to lay down tracks 2:00 AM if I wanted. And for live applications use it in the loop of my Mesa Mark IV. That was the idea, but this is what happened over the past 5 years.
I did use it to track at 2:00 AM and to practice within the house. However it was the live rig that kept evolving.
Rig 1
The Axe Fx was in the loop of the Mark IV and only used for effects, I had a pedal tray and a switch/router in front of the Mark IV, so everything was under midi control.
Rig 2
The pedal tray and switching system was removed, instead I was now using the Axe Fx 4 cable method. This worked great not only less gear but way more versatile, since I was not longer limited to the setting of a pedal. (sounded good too!)

Rig 3
Wired up the same as Rig 2, the difference? I started to use a combination of the Mark IV’s preamp channels and also some on the Axe Fx amp models with the power amp sim’s set to off.

Note: At this point there was a desire on my part to start using the power amp sim’s on the live rig, since it was working so well when recording direct. The problem the Mark IV power amp is hardly a flat response amp and add’s allot of color, so stacking a modeled power amp sim on top of that would not be favorable in most cases. Also found myself using the Mark IV’s preamp channels less and less. It’s not that one sounded better than the other, but could just maintain more control doing everything through the Axe Fx. So in the end I was just using the Mark IV as a power amp.
Next evolution/Rig 4
Mark IV was removed! And replaced by an Atomic MB-50, which is a tube power amp, mono but flat response. This way could start using power amp sim’s. At this point really liking the setup allot, vestal easy setup. (but nothing last ha ha)
Rig 5
Carvin DCM200L power amp replaced the MB-50, lighter was rack mountable, a bit more transparent, also it gave me the ability to go stereo if desired.
Rig 6
Replaced my Mesa 2x12 Recto cab with 2 Atomic Reactor passive cabs (FRFR) this opened up a different world since I could now start using the speaker sims from the Axe Fx.
Changing of the guard/Rig 7 (The Standard retires)
The Axe Fx II. Need I say more? Have had the unit since the fourth week it came out, firmware ver. 1.xx and it was amazing then!! Now we are currently at 14.xx and the difference is night and day. The different firmware versions are always step forward, added features, improved amp modeling, and sometimes both. Either way it is like getting a new unit every time.
Rig 8
Replaced the Carvin DCM200L with the Matrix GT800. Why?
When running the DCM200 with the Mesa cab it was wired “bridged mono” however when going to the 2 Atomic cabs (in stereo or dual mono)I found it to be slightly under powered.
Rig 9
Is what you currently see in my signature. What prompted me to change the speakers was simple; I was never all that crazy about the Atomics and after going to the NY Amp Show and going to the Fractal room, the JBL’s were clearly the best solution in that room at the time. And have been pretty happy with them, however would not mind checking out some Atomic CLR’s in the future. (Yes, it never ends)

John
 
JoeM. said:
Hi Friends.

My Axe FX II is expected to be delivered on Friday and I wanted to ask for recommendations on an optimal setup using a Mark IV amp. While I love my Mark IV I wanted to also be able to explore the cab presets in the FX II and fiddle around with them. I was wondering if I should set the back of the Mark IV for solely clean output and then use the Axe FX through the FX loop send/return jacks etc. I also would like to have the option of using my Mark IV distortion if I choose (since I love the tone). I read from other posts by using a monitor it would be the optimal setup but I cannot afford to buy one at this time since I have a Majesty coming in August.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

JoeM.
Click to expand...

I have experimented a lot with what you are thinking using the Mesa Express plus 5:50, one of Mark's series bastard sons. In the end i tend to just use the Mesa as a tube power amp because everything the mesa can do i can match up exactly in the Axe FX regarding the tube distortions you can achieve with the real amp.

That said, you will have to had a signal splitter A/B box to connect your guitar in, that way your guitar will go in to both units, from there you will have to start experimenting with the FX loops block in the Axe Fx and connect it to the FX loop in the Mesa Boogie.

 
6L6C said:
My advice: try it all ways! Chances are pretty good you will switch setups a few times.

I had first got an Axe FX Standard, the idea at the time was use it to practice with (in my house) and have the ability to lay down tracks 2:00 AM if I wanted. And for live applications use it in the loop of my Mesa Mark IV. That was the idea, but this is what happened over the past 5 years.
I did use it to track at 2:00 AM and to practice within the house. However it was the live rig that kept evolving.
Rig 1
The Axe Fx was in the loop of the Mark IV and only used for effects, I had a pedal tray and a switch/router in front of the Mark IV, so everything was under midi control.
Rig 2
The pedal tray and switching system was removed, instead I was now using the Axe Fx 4 cable method. This worked great not only less gear but way more versatile, since I was not longer limited to the setting of a pedal. (sounded good too!)

Rig 3
Wired up the same as Rig 2, the difference? I started to use a combination of the Mark IV’s preamp channels and also some on the Axe Fx amp models with the power amp sim’s set to off.

Note: At this point there was a desire on my part to start using the power amp sim’s on the live rig, since it was working so well when recording direct. The problem the Mark IV power amp is hardly a flat response amp and add’s allot of color, so stacking a modeled power amp sim on top of that would not be favorable in most cases. Also found myself using the Mark IV’s preamp channels less and less. It’s not that one sounded better than the other, but could just maintain more control doing everything through the Axe Fx. So in the end I was just using the Mark IV as a power amp.
Next evolution/Rig 4
Mark IV was removed! And replaced by an Atomic MB-50, which is a tube power amp, mono but flat response. This way could start using power amp sim’s. At this point really liking the setup allot, vestal easy setup. (but nothing last ha ha)
Rig 5
Carvin DCM200L power amp replaced the MB-50, lighter was rack mountable, a bit more transparent, also it gave me the ability to go stereo if desired.
Rig 6
Replaced my Mesa 2x12 Recto cab with 2 Atomic Reactor passive cabs (FRFR) this opened up a different world since I could now start using the speaker sims from the Axe Fx.
Changing of the guard/Rig 7 (The Standard retires)
The Axe Fx II. Need I say more? Have had the unit since the fourth week it came out, firmware ver. 1.xx and it was amazing then!! Now we are currently at 14.xx and the difference is night and day. The different firmware versions are always step forward, added features, improved amp modeling, and sometimes both. Either way it is like getting a new unit every time.
Rig 8
Replaced the Carvin DCM200L with the Matrix GT800. Why?
When running the DCM200 with the Mesa cab it was wired “bridged mono” however when going to the 2 Atomic cabs (in stereo or dual mono)I found it to be slightly under powered.
Rig 9
Is what you currently see in my signature. What prompted me to change the speakers was simple; I was never all that crazy about the Atomics and after going to the NY Amp Show and going to the Fractal room, the JBL’s were clearly the best solution in that room at the time. And have been pretty happy with them, however would not mind checking out some Atomic CLR’s in the future. (Yes, it never ends)

John
Click to expand...

Hi John.

Thanks for the info. I was curious about studio monitors. Can you hook up the FX 2 straight to studio monitors with no other equipment? I seen other players using monitors but was not sure how it worked. Clearly I have a lot of experimenting to do and find your suggestions helpful.

Joe
 
JoeM. said:
Hi John.

Thanks for the info. I was curious about studio monitors. Can you hook up the FX 2 straight to studio monitors with no other equipment? I seen other players using monitors but was not sure how it worked. Clearly I have a lot of experimenting to do and find your suggestions helpful.

Joe
Click to expand...


Hi Joe

Yeah no problem there whatsoever, as long as the monitors are powered.
Thats what I do, the JBL monitors you see in my signature I only use them for playing out or band rehersal.
At Home I just play the Axe Fx II through the same monitors I use for my DAW. And dont forget the Axe Fx II can also be used as a audio interface.

John
 
what a cool post about the evolution. Love it.

Mind me asking: what are you using at home with the DAW?
the JBL SRX do not seem to be available over here, the PRX instead....can you recommend those over RCF ? (almost same price)
 
kberghoffer said:
what a cool post about the evolution. Love it.

Mind me asking: what are you using at home with the DAW?
the JBL SRX do not seem to be available over here, the PRX instead....can you recommend those over RCF ? (almost same price)
Click to expand...

First off, thank you!
As far as my DAW monitors, as of right now I am using Tannoy (Reveal 402). There is bigger better and so on, but once I had them for a while and got in tune with them, so to say. No problems; the 402’s are small, however they have a surprising amount of low end content, but not boomy crap: “content”. Basically fairly accurate, if I do a mix with the 402’s it translates well to the car stereo, iPod and so on.

As for the JBL’s, I like them and as you can see I have to use a power amp with them and I like this setup. Reason being if I have any desire to use a real guitar cab or even in a situation where it is better or easier to use a real cab. It’s done! Don’t have to worry about a power amp. It’s with me all the time.
Warning!! I love my SRX’s, like I said (post above) the reason I got them, 2 years ago in the Fractal room at the NY Amp Show, and also the year before that, come to think of it. The JBL’s were clearly the best as far as FRFR. Also Cliff was using them at the time in preset development, don’t know if he still does. BUT that was 2 years ago, things are always changing. And as far as the JBL PRX, if you read around people don’t seem to be digging them. Never heard them myself.
Sorry, I never heard a RCF in person so I can’t make that call. (And at one time I came pretty close to getting one). There are some people that have had them and went for the CLR’s, some regretted it and others did not. So if you currently have a RCF, personally I would keep it till you get to hear something in person that gets your attention.

You might find this thread interesting, and it’s still going on.
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/86185-monitor-serious-live-use.html
Also this video is within the same thread comparing an Atomic CLR and a Yamaha DXR 10
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/86185-monitor-serious-live-use-4.html#post1049819

I personally have some interest in the Yamaha DXR 10, I like it better but you can only judge so much in a YouTube video, But still it gives you an idea. The SXR’s are going no were for now.

John
 
I run output 1 out to 2 powered monitors.
Ouptut 2 goes into the return loop of my MarkIV
I have EL-34L's in my class A slots and when run in class A a lot of the models in the Axe sound very,very good.
I also run the input 2(on the back of the Axe FRX Unit) into the send of the Mark IV loop.
I created a patch that is nothing but GEQ, and delays ,reverb chorus, and Phase shifter with an Fx Loop block at the end.
by going into the I/O menu on my axe I can set input to 'Rear" and use the Axe for Effects only. I plug into my MArk IV , tuen on the loop and I get all of my effects.
change the I/O back to 'Front" and I can plug back into my Axe and use the models through the Mark IV power section out to my Recto 2X12.
Just freaking awesome how easy it is to switch back and forth :)
 
kmanick said:
I run output 1 out to 2 powered monitors.
Ouptut 2 goes into the return loop of my MarkIV
I have EL-34L's in my class A slots and when run in class A a lot of the models in the Axe sound very,very good.
I also run the input 2(on the back of the Axe FRX Unit) into the send of the Mark IV loop.
I created a patch that is nothing but GEQ, and delays ,reverb chorus, and Phase shifter with an Fx Loop block at the end.
by going into the I/O menu on my axe I can set input to 'Rear" and use the Axe for Effects only. I plug into my MArk IV , tuen on the loop and I get all of my effects.
change the I/O back to 'Front" and I can plug back into my Axe and use the models through the Mark IV power section out to my Recto 2X12.
Just freaking awesome how easy it is to switch back and forth :)
Click to expand...

I have mine setup so far (because haven't had much time to fiddle around with it) with the 4 cable method. I have a 4x12 cab with Blackshadow speakers. I did notice though that through my Mark IV head as power amp that the settings for distortion seems to have a lot of bass to them (almost too much). One example is preset 35. When checking out the other presets I also noticed the disparity between volume outputs for each which I am assuming is also normal because that is set within the patch.

It could be me and my lack of experience with the unit. I am not sure, but I also feel the distortion sounds flubby on the low strings. I have new power tubes (6L6's) in my Mark IV and my preamps (which should not be used in this setup) were replaced about 2 years ago. I am seriously considering monitors but somewhere down the line because I just rolled out 6k on new equipment (Axe,MFC,Majesty).

Any thoughts?
 
JoeM. said:
I have mine setup so far (because haven't had much time to fiddle around with it) with the 4 cable method. I have a 4x12 cab with Blackshadow speakers. I did notice though that through my Mark IV head as power amp that the settings for distortion seems to have a lot of bass to them (almost too much). One example is preset 35. When checking out the other presets I also noticed the disparity between volume outputs for each which I am assuming is also normal because that is set within the patch.

It could be me and my lack of experience with the unit. I am not sure, but I also feel the distortion sounds flubby on the low strings. I have new power tubes (6L6's) in my Mark IV and my preamps (which should not be used in this setup) were replaced about 2 years ago. I am seriously considering monitors but somewhere down the line because I just rolled out 6k on new equipment (Axe,MFC,Majesty).

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Since you are playing through a real cab and real amp (power amp section I am referring to)
Did you turn off the cab?
Did you turn off the power amp sim's.

Common mistake and would explain what you are experiencing.

John
 
I was using my Mark V with an Ultra using 4CM live for a while. Everything operated via midi, so used a Liquid Foot controller out front.
It was a great set-up and if you are looking to integrate your Mark IV, the 4CM with the AxeFX II is a viable solution.

That said, I liked the evolution post because as I have continued to experiment, I also started to leave my "amp" at home.
Right now I am running an Axe FX II output 1 to FOH and Output 2 to a Matrix GT1000FX power amp, which then goes out to one or two 4X12's onstage.
Honestly, its the best of everything I love!! Great tone onstage, without being too loud. No miking needed. Consistent tone (which sound men love) to FOH.
The set-up is MFC-101, a volume, and a wah pedal, that's it out front. Super easy and quick.
4 space rack holds the Axe, the Matrix, and my wireless.

I understand wanting to incorporate your Mark IV into the rig, but honestly it limits your options quite a bit.
There is always the option of doing that kind of thing at home or at rehearsal, but live...I go with consistency and ease of set-up myself.

Good luck with your new Axe. It will NOT disappoint!!
 
I noticed that the EQ is live on the mark IV after bypassing the Preamp stage. I leave it off unless I run a patch with the power amp modeling "off".
I am not experiencing any excess bass or flub with my rig. I have used a few power amps to drive the Axe through a 2X12 and I must say
the Mark IV has been my favorite with the Fryette 2/50/2 a close 2nd.
I am not using the 4 cable method so I will be of little help.
I should look up how to do this and try to set it up , although I am quite happy with the way it is right now.
 
6L6C said:
Since you are playing through a real cab and real amp (power amp section I am referring to)
Did you turn off the cab?
Did you turn off the power amp sim's.

Common mistake and would explain what you are experiencing.

John
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that. I was reading the PDF owners manual and did not do that yet. I was so excited when I got it the past few days that I bypassed reading the manual thoroughly. I will do that either tonight or tomorrow night and post my findings. Thank you for the input.
 
BTW nothing is written in stone, just because you are using a real guitar amp does not mean you have to turn off the power amp sims on the Axe Fx, but when having issues like you decribed it is a good starting place.

Same goes for the cab sims (especially for cab sims, in my book) when you are already running through a real cab to begin with.

BTW dont get discouraged and be so quick to jump ship and go FRFR, start thinking about gettiing new speakers and so on, live with it work with it. Problems also force you to get to know the Axe Fx. Although I may have provided soom good reading above (ha ha) nothing was done on impulse. And I always got a good sound out of every rig that was put together.

This is a good place for info, youtube to soom degree also. Give it time not only will you get more proficient with your Axe Fx in any situation, but it will just make you a better sound engineer in general.

John
 
I leave a lot of the power amp sims on/all cab sims off.
Leaving the Cab sim on adds a ton of bass (in my experience), that could be the culprit right there.
 
kmanick said:
I leave a lot of the power amp sims on/all cab sims off.
Leaving the Cab sim on adds a ton of bass (in my experience), that could be the culprit right there.
Click to expand...

I tried last night running the cab and power amp sims off/on and noticed the sound disparity. It kind of threw me at first because the cab/power amp sims raise the sound level of my amp a lot and changes the tone significantly. I liked it with the highs/midrange levels but not with the lows.

I am going to spend the weekend creating custom presets and see what I can come up with that makes me happy. I finally hooked up the Axe FX to the computer so it should make it easier to edit sounds. I can't wait to see what I can come up with.
 
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