Bug? Momentary switch requires 2 taps to work when initially going to a preset.

wezx

wezx

Experienced
I had FINALLY gotten this to work SOMEHOW about a year ago. Now here is the same problem again after updating the MFC/Axe II. I have an external momentary switch setup to bypass/unbypass a delay block. I have the switch type as MOMENTARY under SETUP and as TOGGLE under MIDI, and yet when first going to a preset it takes 2 taps to get the switch working and then it works fine back and forth. I have tried every combination of TOGGLE/MOMENTARY and TOGGLE/HDW/AUT and nothing makes it function correctly. I have tried 4 different switch pedals and they all exhibit the same behaviour...


I also have an external switch that switches the rotary speed from slow to fast after having switched on the rotary block with an IA...Just like my other external switch I have to hit this external switch twice to get it to work and switch the rotary block from low to high speed.
 
If an external momentary switch is set to Toggle (Edit > MIDI), you're essentially forcing it to behave as a latching switch.
But as the manual mentions, in this mode its current state is not retained when switching presets (switch data is not being sent). That's why it gets out of sync. The PC RST parameter in the effect block's modifier menu probably also plays a part.

It's best to use real latching switches for this purpose, such as a Boss FS6. Bright Onion also makes good (custom) ones.
 
This has worked correctly for the last 6 months to a year and has only stopped working after the recent updates. And with all due respect, the manual clearly states:

"Footswitches are classified according to the operation into several basic physical types: “TOGGLE” (a.k.a.
“Latching”) switches, and “MOMENTARY” switches (a.k.a. “hold,” subdivided into “Make” and “Break” types).

All types are supported by the MFC-101..."

Why should I have to use different switches when the capability should (and has been in the past) there?
 
Also, the same problem happens if you setup the switch pedal as a modifier to the mix parameter...PC RST has no effect whatsoever. It still takes 2 taps to engage the switch.


"Use this setting if you want a connected MOMENTARY switch to behave as if it were really a TOGGLE/LATCHING switch." That's directly from the manual.


"But as the manual mentions, in this mode its current state is not retained when switching presets (switch data is not being sent). That's why it gets out of sync."

I have tried both NORMALLY OPEN & NORMALLY CLOSED switches, so the switch data being sent is not relevant. Also, it's a MOMENTARY switch...it's "current state" is ALWAYS THE SAME...it's switch data shouldn't need to be sent when switching presets. It should (and has before) still switch the first time it receives data from the pedal.
 
I just checked.

1) Boss FS6: switch A set to momentary.
2) Connect A to XS 1+2 input on MFC.
3) Edit > Setup: Set XS1 to Momentary. Set XS2 to Off.
4) Edit > Midi: Set XS1 to CC 47 (= Delay 1), TypTOG.
5) Add Delay 1 block to two presets, both saved as bypassed.

Switch A now me enable/bypass the Delay 1 block in preset #1. When switching to preset #2, the Delay block returns to its saved bypassed state, and I can use the switch again to enable the delay.

So far so good. A momentary switch isn't really a toggle that always switches between A and B when pressed. It's operates on an On/Off basis. The first press is On, the second is Off. If your Delay is always stored as Off, this works (if it doesn't, verify in Edit > Preset that XS is set to Global).

Now engage Delay 1 in preset #2 and store the preset. In this scenario, where the presets have different effect states, the sync gets lost. Because the first press on the switch still means: Turn On, while the effect is already activated.
I don't know how you got to accomplish keeping the switch sync'd at all time.
 
BTW, thanks for the assistance Yek :)

OK, I have figured out half of the problem:

EDIT > Setup > XS2 type set as MOMENTARY
EDIT > MIDI > XS2 set as TOGGLE
EDIT > PRESET > DOES NOT WORK WITH XS2 set to GBL...tried changing from Global to the CC#69 (Multi-delay bypass) NOW WORKS CORRECTLY, but NOT with XS2 set to GLOBAL in PRESET...MUST be set to the CC# to work!

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Other half of the problem is still not working correctly: Switch pedal to change speed of rotary
EDIT > Setup > XS1 type set as MOMENTARY
EDIT > MIDI > XS1 set as TOGGLE
EDIT > PRESET > DOES NOT WORK WITH XS2 set to GBL...ALSO, DOES NOT WORK WITH XS2 set to CC# 21 (Ext 6 controller which is connected to ROTARY RATE)

Still requires 2 taps to enagage switch and change ROTARY RATE


Will continue to work on this...it worked before, so I am hopeful I can make it work again.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The manual should be updated to reflect that under EDIT > PRESET > the switch pedal (if it's a momentary) must be set to the CC#, NOT GBL, or 2 taps will be required to engage it.
 
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OK the MUlti-delay Block bypass is working correctly with the MOMENTARY SWITCH


HOWEVER, there is something VERY wrong still going on: Follow me here:

PEDAL 1:

EDIT > SETUP > MOMENTARY

EDIT > MIDI > CC#GBL > TOGGLE

EDIT > PRESET > CC#86 (ROTARY BYPASS) > TOGGLE

WORKS WITH 1 PRESS OF MOMENTARY SWITCH!!!!



PEDAL 2:

EDIT > SETUP > MOMENTARY

EDIT > MIDI > CC#GBL > TOGGLE

EDIT > PRESET > CC#69 (MULTI-DELAY BYPASS) > TOGGLE

DOES NOT WORK WITH 1 PRESS OF MOMENTARY SWITCH!!!! TAKES 2 TO WORK



*******In other words, 2 identical pedals (and yes, I tried switching them - no change) with IDENTICAL settings in the MFC ARE PRODUCING 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT RESULTS in the bypass state of 2 different blocks: One pedal unbypasses with 1 tap, and the other requires 2 taps to work.....????????????????
 
Also, NOTHING I have tried has gotten the MOMENTARY pedal to switch the ROTARY SPEED with 1 tap...I have no idea how I got it to work before...but it did.

EDIT > SETUP > XS1=MOMENTARY

EDIT > MIDI > CC#21 (EXTERNAL 6 connected to SPEED control in ROTARY block) > TOGGLE

EDIT > PRESET > CC#21 (EXTERNAL 6 connected to SPEED control in ROTARY block) > TOGGLE

ROTARY BLOCK SPEED CONTROL attached to EXTERNAL 6
Min: 1.600 Hz
Max: 10 Hz
Start 0%
Mid 50%
End 100%
PC RST OFF (I have tried off and on and still 2 taps are required)

Still takes 2 taps to switch after a preset change...

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

One thing I have noticed is that after a preset change the little dot on the controller graph for the ROTARY SPEED is not on the diagonal line, it is hanging out in space...the first tap does nothing and then the second tap causes it to "snap" to the line.
 
Hmm, strange, that 2nd switch.
Sure that fx blocks are saved as bypassed?
Is the polarity of both switches the same?

Like you I've had trouble keeping an ext mom. switch in sync for Rate control, through preset switching.
A true latching switch does work better (state will carry over when switching presets).
 
You're not following what I'm trying to do:

PRESET 1 has a ROTARY BLOCK BYPASSED
When unbypassing it with an IA the speed should be LOW
When pressing XS1 the speed should switch to HIGH and then back and forth when hitting the switch.

GO TO ANOTHER PRESET

GO BACK TO PRESET 1...the ROTARY BLOCK will be bypassed (the presets saved state)
When unbypassing the ROTARY the speed should BE BACK AT LOW (the default state) and hitting the XS1 switch ONCE should switch it to HIGH

Now what's F'ed up here is that while an actual latching switch doesn't require 2 taps to work it WON'T DEFAULT BACK TO SLOW

And YES, I have tried the PC RST "ON" & "OFF"...when PC RST is "ON" and you come back to the preset and look at the ROTARY graph the little ball isn't even on the line and the first tap just puts it on the line in the wrong state...hence EVEN WITH A LATCHING SWITCH IT TAKES 2 TAPS TO GET IT TO WORK CORRECTLY


Fractal really needs to look at this...this does not work correctly at all and shouldn't be this damn hard to set up.

****************************************************************************************


I just want a ROTARY block in my preset that is bypassed, when I use an IA to unbypass it I want the ROTARY speed to be SLOW and I want to be able to hit my switch once and have the speed move to FAST and then hit it again to go back to SLOW, etc. etc.

When I go to another preset and come back I want this ROTARY preset to revert to it's original state = ROTARY BYPASSED and SPEED SLOW with ONE TAP to switch the speed to FAST

VERY VERY FRUSTRATED HERE WITH THIS!
 
yek said:
Hmm, strange, that 2nd switch.
Sure that fx blocks are saved as bypassed?
Is the polarity of both switches the same?

Blocks are both bypassed
Polarity is same on switches (I have switched them around as well...same behaviour)



Like you I've had trouble keeping an ext mom. switch in sync for Rate control, through preset switching.
A true latching switch does work better (state will carry over when switching presets).
Click to expand...

That's the problem...I DON'T WANT the state to stay the same...I want the state of the Rotary to ALWAYS default to SLOW across preset changes...I can get that to happen but it takes 2 taps to get the switch to work and move to high

see my post above this one
 
I think that this is related to a bug in Expression Pedal initial states.
We have a fix for that and will release once testing is complete.
 
Wow, that's cool...you guys are the best!

In the mean time...I FIGURED OUT HOW TO MAKE IT WORK! YEAH!


I have my external 6 CC#21 setup to control ROTARY speed and I have the PC RST "ON"

EDIT > MIDI > There is a page that said:

IntCC 01 Of127 On000

Next page:

IntCC 01 CC#021 Ch01

Now I don't know if I set these along time ago and had it working or what??, but I just switched the "Of" value to "000" and the "On" value to "127"

AND IT WORKS NOW!!!

Rotary defaults to SLOW and 1 tap switches it to FAST

THANK YOU VERY MUCH to Yek and you folks at Fractal for looking at this and helping me! WOW, I feel WAY better now! LOL
 
wezx said:
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Click to expand...

Pausing for breath mid-scream . . . the sign of true frustration! :)

I'm glad you got it figured out!
 
wezx said:
IntCC 01 CC#021 Ch01
Now I don't know if I set these along time ago and had it working or what??, but I just switched the "Of" value to "000" and the "On" value to "127"
Click to expand...

Yes, this is a custom CC#021 setting that you must have entered at some time in the past.
Seems like the upgrade messed up values for some reason. Glad to see you've sorted it out.

This is one the reasons I like doing a factory reset after a major upgrade, and re-entering values or restoring a backup.
 
yek said:
Yes, this is a custom CC#021 setting that you must have entered at some time in the past.
Seems like the upgrade messed up values for some reason. Glad to see you've sorted it out.

This is one the reasons I like doing a factory reset after a major upgrade, and re-entering values or restoring a backup.
Click to expand...

Every upgrade, I do a factory reset .....habit.
 
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