MIDI newbie - detailed tutorials?

izappa

izappa

Member
GOAL - better instructions/tutorials/step-by-step examples on using MIDI other than reading the manual (FM9).

DETAILS - I have read the manual N times regarding MIDI, and it feels like it's written for someone already knowledgeable in MIDI. I found a couple YT tutorials, but they were on the AX-FX II/III so the corresponding FX edit they're using doesn't match the FM9's edit. MIDI block? CS? CS and MIDI block? FM9-edit to access MIDI setup (doesn't appear to exist)?

EXAMPLE -
  • For a current scene, have a switch setup that will turn on additional effects, i.e., more than 1, or alter the settings on effects within the scene. I have a scene where I use an expression pedal to turn on/off REVERB HOLD, but there are effects in that scene I want to turn on and/or alter. I did create a 2nd scene that has those additional effects on, but only solves the effects being on/off but I still cannot control their settings. I don't see a need to have a 2nd scene to turn on additional pedals when the scene I am using already has them included, and I don't want to use another scene to alter the effects settings.
I appreciate any pointers to tutorials, step-by-step examples, etc.

Thank you all and Good Music!
 
The MIDI block will not help you controlling the FM9 but external effects via MIDI commands sent by the FM9. In order to control the FM9 you assign controllers to effects, e.g. via external pedals, an LFO or a scene controller that can assign values depending on the scene selected.
 
What is it that you're wanting to use midi for?

As far as Fractal, the things you care about are: midi channel, PCs and CCs.

The midi channel is a value from 1-16, and this is set on the device being controlled so it will "listen" for midi messages only intended for it.

PC is a midi Program Change. This is what is used for changing presets on midi controlled devices.

CC is Control Change. This is what is used to change parameter values on midi controlled devices. That could be turning an effect on or off or it could be adjusting the volume or controlling the "sweep" of a Wah effect.

A PC number has a value from 0-127. For devices with more than 128 presets, PCs may be prefixed with a special CC to select the "bank" to choose presets from.

A CC number also has a value of 0-127, and the meaning of that number depends on the device being controlled. On Fractal devices, the CC# for each controllable parameter is set by the user.

CCs also have a "value". So, CCs are always a number and a value. For simple things like turning an effect off/on, you only need two values - 0 for OFF and 127 for ON although technically, 0-63 is OFF and 64-127 is ON. Many midi controllers don't allow assigning the value sent for CCs designed to turn things off and on.

CCs are also used to provide values for Continuous Controllers. This would be something like an expression pedal controlling volume or Wah or whammy. In this case, the value sent will correspond to the "position" of the pedal (or knob).

For Continuous Controllers, the receiving device will "map" the incoming value to a value for the controlled parameter. For example, if you're controlling a volume control that goes from 1-10, the values from 0-127 will equate to the knob 1-10... So, for example, if the value is 13 (really 12.8, which isn't possible) the knob value would be (about) 1. That's because 10 / 128 == 12.8.

There are many, many pages of information on midi... I don't have a good reference because I've been using it for a long time.

Hopefully this gets you going in the right direction.
 
If you're just trying to control effects and parameters directly on the FM9, you don't need MIDI at all.

Scenes don't affect effects parameters directly unless you are using scene controllers. They only select the bypass state and the current channel for each block. Use modifiers for real time control of parameters.
 
Unless you are using the FM9 to control external MIDI devices or you are using an external MIDI controller to change settings in the FM9 you don’t need to use MIDI.

Within a preset you have several options for changing FX settings:

- use a different scene that sets the bypass state of each FX block, the channel of each FX block (which is one way to change the individual settings of that FX block)

- use a different scene and use scene controllers to change the settings for FX within that scene

- use a control switch (CS) to change settings of various FX blocks within any scene

- use an expression pedal to change settings of various FX blocks within that scene

Personally I tend to use ‘one preset per song’ so most of the time I use scenes to switch FX settings - for example, scene 2 is the same amp etc as scene 1, but scene 1 has a short slap-back delay while scene 2 has a long delay for lead tones. Perhaps scene 3 is a clean tone which engages a phaser and compressor, and scene 4 has a fuzz and pitch block for an octave fuzz tone, but the per preset layout for this preset has the pitch block engage/bypass switch visible so I can toggle it on and off within that scene. And within this preset I may have a chorus FX block that is always on (in every scene), BUT the default is that the mix is at zero and if I move the expression pedal toward to the toe it starts to increase the mix to add chorus (in any of the scenes). Then I have 2 control switches - CS1 is assigned to engage the preamp boost in any/every scene, and CS2 is assigned to boost my output level (in every scene) a few dB where needed for solos.

That’s just one way to approach it - but I raise it because it works great for me. That said, I play in cover bands with repertoire that span 50s/60s pop to metal, as well as original bands with varying styles, so I tend to want/need a lot of tones.

Some players try to use just one preset all/most of the time and then have ‘kitchen sink’ scenes with everything in them and use just CSs, XPDLs, etc to make all their tonal changes within one preset. I find that approach unnecessarily constricting for my uses, but it seems to work for many.
 
unix-guy said:
What is it that you're wanting to use midi for?
Click to expand...
This is absolutely the most important question.

@izappa you state your goal just doesn't work well. It's too general.

What exactly do you want to do with midi? Use an external midi controller to change presets or scenes on the FM9? Use the FM9 as a midi controller to control an external piece of gear?

Without a more specific goal it's too difficult to help you achieve what you need.

Unix-guy's post is a damn good and concise explanation for getting started for a general understanding of midi. Understand midi channels and PCs as a first step. CCs as a 2nd step.
 
Rumbletone said:
Unless you are using the FM9 to control external MIDI devices or you are using an external MIDI controller to change settings in the FM9 you don’t need to use MIDI.
Click to expand...
And this is a VERY good thing for folks to understand. Midi allows different pieces of gear to control each other. If you're trying to make the FM9 do something inside itself, you don't need midi.
 
izappa said:
I don't see a need to have a 2nd scene to turn on additional pedals when the scene I am using already has them included, and I don't want to use another scene to alter the effects settings.
Click to expand...
Scenes change block on/off and block channels. that's their purpose.

so to change to a 2nd scene "just" to turn on additional blocks is actually the reason to use Scenes.

to change block settings, you would use different Channels with those different settings and have the Scenes change channels for you as well.

what did you want to use Scenes for, if not turning on multiple blocks/changing channels?

MIDI won't help you change block settings, as different Channels can do that, as well as the advanced feature of Scene Controllers.

please give an example of exactly what you're trying to do. like in the Drive block i want to __ and also __, or something like that.
 
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Deadpool_25 said:
This is absolutely the most important question.

@izappa you state your goal just doesn't work well. It's too general.

What exactly do you want to do with midi? Use an external midi controller to change presets or scenes on the FM9? Use the FM9 as a midi controller to control an external piece of gear?

Without a more specific goal it's too difficult to help you achieve what you need.

Unix-guy's post is a damn good and concise explanation for getting started for a general understanding of midi. Understand midi channels and PCs as a first step. CCs as a 2nd step.
Click to expand...
It's a fair question, i.e., what do I hope to achieve. Per Rumblestone, maybe the best path is scenes which is what I was doing. I am contemplating a FC6/12 so I have more physical switch options, and I was considering how the FC could be used to send program/control changes which led me to the MIDI rabbit hole.

I engage a FC switch to change a drive setting, turn on a clean boost, and change a reverb setting - it does all three. If the answer is use scenes, I just used up a scene. This led to my thoughts if MIDI PC/CC could do the same without requiring its own scene. Maybe/maybe not. "Newbie" is the operative word in my OP :). Yes, Unix guy provided a thoughtful response (used to write Unix kernel back in the day :) ).
 
unix-guy said:
What is it that you're wanting to use midi for?

As far as Fractal, the things you care about are: midi channel, PCs and CCs.

The midi channel is a value from 1-16, and this is set on the device being controlled so it will "listen" for midi messages only intended for it.

PC is a midi Program Change. This is what is used for changing presets on midi controlled devices.

CC is Control Change. This is what is used to change parameter values on midi controlled devices. That could be turning an effect on or off or it could be adjusting the volume or controlling the "sweep" of a Wah effect.

A PC number has a value from 0-127. For devices with more than 128 presets, PCs may be prefixed with a special CC to select the "bank" to choose presets from.

A CC number also has a value of 0-127, and the meaning of that number depends on the device being controlled. On Fractal devices, the CC# for each controllable parameter is set by the user.

CCs also have a "value". So, CCs are always a number and a value. For simple things like turning an effect off/on, you only need two values - 0 for OFF and 127 for ON although technically, 0-63 is OFF and 64-127 is ON. Many midi controllers don't allow assigning the value sent for CCs designed to turn things off and on.

CCs are also used to provide values for Continuous Controllers. This would be something like an expression pedal controlling volume or Wah or whammy. In this case, the value sent will correspond to the "position" of the pedal (or knob).

For Continuous Controllers, the receiving device will "map" the incoming value to a value for the controlled parameter. For example, if you're controlling a volume control that goes from 1-10, the values from 0-127 will equate to the knob 1-10... So, for example, if the value is 13 (really 12.8, which isn't possible) the knob value would be (about) 1. That's because 10 / 128 == 12.8.

There are many, many pages of information on midi... I don't have a good reference because I've been using it for a long time.

Hopefully this gets you going in the right direction.
Click to expand...
THank you for taking the time on this response - very much appreciated.
 
izappa said:
This led to my thoughts if MIDI PC/CC could do the same without requiring its own scene. Maybe/maybe not. "Newbie" is the operative word in my OP :).
Click to expand...
It certainly can... But not really "within" the FM9 to itself. Using a flexible external midi controller can be very cool, but since the FM9 has a lot of built-in switches and capability I'd suggest working in the Fractal paradigm unless you're controlling a bunch of external gear as well.
 
izappa said:
I was considering how the FC could be used to send program/control changes which led me to the MIDI rabbit hole.
Click to expand...
To clarify, the FC doesn't do anything with MIDI. Think of the FC as a keyboard attached to a computer that tells the modeler what switch you stepped on, and how long you held it down before releasing it. All MIDI is handled inside the modeler itself.

In previous generations of the hardware, MIDI was involved between the foot-controller and the modeler, but now it's its own protocol.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
To clarify, the FC doesn't do anything with MIDI.
Click to expand...
This. The FC's don't count as "external devices" in this context. They communicate in such a way as to make the FM9 (or FM3 or AxeFX III) treat them as, for all intents and purposes, part of the modeler.

If you're wanting to do multiple things at once, yes, scenes is the best way to do this. Another way would be to switch presets.

You might could use an external midi controller (like a Morningstar MC8 for example) to send multiple messages to the FM9 that make it do a few things at one time, but at that point we're back to the question: why not just use scenes since that's exactly why they exist? If you're not using scenes for that, what are you using them for?

Additionally, remember you can have multiple copies of the same preset. With three copies of a preset you basically have 24 scenes. Granted you have to also switch presets but that's not difficult. Maybe not ideal within a single song, but how often do you need more than 8 sounds for one song?
 
Deadpool_25 said:
Additionally, remember you can have multiple copies of the same preset. With three copies of a preset you basically have 24 scenes. Granted you have to also switch presets but that's not difficult. Maybe not ideal within a single song, but how often do you need more than 8 sounds for one song?
Click to expand...
Exactly. People never seem to get the point that multiple copies of the same, or a similar, preset can greatly extend the scenes, and even blocks available.

"But, I want more blocks in my preset and I'm out of CPU!" Well, make a similar preset and jump between them.

It's our imagination and we can use it however we like! :)
 
This looks like a very experienced group so I’ll post my simple question here 😁 I need the exact steps to turn a block on/off via an external midi controller. Probably a simple thing to do but I need a little guidance! TIA!
 
boulieB said:
This looks like a very experienced group so I’ll post my simple question here 😁 I need the exact steps to turn a block on/off via an external midi controller. Probably a simple thing to do but I need a little guidance! TIA!
Click to expand...
Front panel
Setup
MIDI
Page to what you want and set a CC#
Send that CC# from your controller

Better to start your own thread next time.
 
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