Matchbox D-30

[Thenewexhibit]

Is it just me, or is this amp bad at taking drive pedals? The few I've tried sound end up sounding like a bit crusher as an end result. The amp is edge of breakup, not too hot without any pedals, but I also wonder because I thought a lot of Praise and Worship guys use this amp, and I know they use a lot of pedals and stacking drives etc. I can really only get away with one with a thornbucker + though (which is not all that hot of a pickup), and even then, it doesn't necessarily sound gainy, but rather soft and loose. Do you guys have the same experience? Is that just how these amps are?

 

[Thenewexhibit]

You know, I don't know much about this amp in the real world, but I DID just notice that the master volume is on the Tone tab of the amp block. I assumed this defaulted at 10 because that's how the amp responds with the gain knob so I didn't bother to touch it for authenticity. However, I'm noticing that the real amp has a master too, so it makes me wonder, is the default of that being on 10 for the model overkill and potentially causing the collapsed sound because of too much power amp interaction?

 

[Thenewexhibit]

Wow, so the Master Volume makes a MASSIVE difference! I know that's obvious, but with the master defaulting at 10, it makes the amp more honky and prone to bit crusher sounds. Turning that down really opens up the amp in a nice way! I can't believe it! It can still tend to collapse on itself a bit if you're not careful when using a neck humbucker, but turning down the bass and or adjusting the master in conjunction can help with that. I just automatically assumed for some silly reason that the master on 10 was for authenticity, like I know some of the non master volume amps were set to before it changed to just amp controls, but never realized that the Matchless had a master volume because I never had experience with the real thing.

I imagine this stuff only sounds better now with the new amp algorithms, which also affects the way drive pedals hit the front end of the amps now for beta firmware 27, no??

 

[Rumbletone]

I don't know why the default is where it is, but the master is switchable on the C-30 and, IMHO, the master isn't great on that amp - to me it sounds best with it defeated (or on 10) with the channel volume cranked to the desirable level of gain.

And on the EF86 channel - my favourite - 'power amp interaction' is the essence of the amp's architecture (assuming you count the phase inverter as part of the power amp ...). It has a single gain stage in the preamp, and driving the PI and output section is how it gets its breakup - there is none in the preamp alone, as it has only one gain stage. If you have the channel gain high and the master low, you are hearing the phase inverter overdriving and the output tubes running (relatively) clean. If you have the channel gain lower and the master high, you are getting less phase inverter breakup, and as you increase the channel gain you start to overdrive both the phase inverter and the output tubes (and potentially output transformer and speakers). And on a C-30 it gets quite loud before it's breaking up, even in half power mode.

But in the Fractal world we are spoiled because we can set the scene levels anywhere so we don't need to crank the amp to insane volume levels to get breakup and we can set the master wherever it gives us the desired tone, regardless of how 'loud' we want the end result, and the preamp boost feature of the amp block allows us to drive the preamp in an organic way that - IMO - you just can't get with pedals (real or modelled). So - as with all amp models - I recommend you adjust the various settings, including the master and the preamp boost (if you're wanting to run it quite dirty) to get the desired tone each time, and don't worry too much about either the real amp or the defaults or expect that there is any particular rationale for the default settings.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

I don't know why the default is where it is, but the master is switchable on the C-30 and, IMHO, the master isn't great on that amp - to me it sounds best with it defeated (or on 10) with the channel volume cranked to the desirable level of gain.

And on the EF86 channel - my favourite - 'power amp interaction' is the essence of the amp's architecture (assuming you count the phase inverter as part of the power amp ...). It has a single gain stage in the preamp, and driving the PI and output section is how it gets its breakup - there is none in the preamp alone, as it has only one gain stage. If you have the channel gain high and the master low, you are hearing the phase inverter overdriving and the output tubes running (relatively) clean. If you have the channel gain lower and the master high, you are getting less phase inverter breakup, and as you increase the channel gain you start to overdrive both the phase inverter and the output tubes (and potentially output transformer and speakers). And on a C-30 it gets quite loud before it's breaking up, even in half power mode.

But in the Fractal world we are spoiled because we can set the scene levels anywhere so we don't need to crank the amp to insane volume levels to get breakup and we can set the master wherever it gives us the desired tone, regardless of how 'loud' we want the end result, and the preamp boost feature of the amp block allows us to drive the preamp in an organic way that - IMO - you just can't get with pedals (real or modelled). So - as with all amp models - I recommend you adjust the various settings, including the master and the preamp boost (if you're wanting to run it quite dirty) to get the desired tone each time, and don't worry too much about either the real amp or the defaults or expect that there is any particular rationale for the default settings.

For sure! That's interesting about the master volume! I've found there is a sweet spot (with my guitar) somewhere between 5-7. I find that if I have the master all the way up and try to get the gain level from the gain knob, it's already a bit bloated and feels stiff/dry unless you turn it up more, in which case then it takes overdrive poorly (in my opinion) so I've found for me that the master lower and getting the right amount of finger grease from the gain knob with cleaner headroom makes things feel squishy but still somewhat tight without collapsing on around the 10-12th fret on the neck pickup.

 

[WKSmith]

The real amps like the dc30 and bad cats are picky about drive pedals. I use the EF86 side too.

I use a wampler euphoria and wampler triumph stacked with the real amps.. in the Fractal though.. the Timmy (close to a euphoria), the Rc booster, and tube driver (close to the triumph). The KOT works nice for higher gain too. I push the front end with a compressor a little bit.

 

[jlynnb1]

takes pedals like a champ, just have to learn how to use it.

 

[Rumbletone]

then it takes overdrive poorly (in my opinion)

Have you tried the preamp boost in the amp block instead of driving the front end with an overdrive pedal? For any given tone I recommend dialling in both and then A/B-ing between them to determine which you prefer. In my case, it's almost always the preamp boost.

Many modeller users seem to gravitate naturally to the 'set and forget the amp and use drive pedals to vary the gain ...' scenario that so many players use in the non-digital world, but because we don't have the practical limitations of changing amp settings in real time (it's just as easy to change the amp to completely different settings or even to a different amp model as it is to engage a drive block, arguably easier since it doesn't require adding a drive block or using up the extra CPU ...) and because all amp models have a master and a preamp boost and a scene level (independent of the amp settings) available in the Fractal world, I recommend players don't always default to using pedals for varying gain and instead only use it if/when it gives a preferred tone.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

takes pedals like a champ, just have to learn how to use it.

Tell me about it! I just learned the OCD pedals work pretty nice in front of it and so does using a klon before that too. But it only played nice by turning the master volume down, which it seems most people are not doing, which I wonder how they get away with it because it easily turns into bit crusher mode for me without doing that.

Are you using single coils or humbuckers? Which pedals? Which cabs? Are you adjusting the ideal settings or any other deep dive parameters or just using it like the real amp?

 

[Thenewexhibit]

Have you tried the preamp boost in the amp block instead of driving the front end with an overdrive pedal? For any given tone I recommend dialling in both and then A/B-ing between them to determine which you prefer. In my case, it's almost always the preamp boost.

Many modeller users seem to gravitate naturally to the 'set and forget the amp and use drive pedals to vary the gain ...' scenario that so many players use in the non-digital world, but because we don't have the practical limitations of changing amp settings in real time (it's just as easy to change the amp to completely different settings or even to a different amp model as it is to engage a drive block, arguably easier since it doesn't require adding a drive block or using up the extra CPU ...) and because all amp models have a master and a preamp boost and a scene level (independent of the amp settings) available in the Fractal world, I recommend players don't always default to using pedals for varying gain and instead only use it if/when it gives a preferred tone.

Got ya! I guess I have that old school mentality of using it like an amp, which can be hindering me as well haha that being said, I know people get great tones the same way (traditional use) and I wonder how, like Justin York for example; very simplistic in his tones, but they sound like a record. It’s amazing. Speaking of which, he actually just brought up the DC-30 in his thread in response to a different comment I made, so I’m gonna be inquiring there as well hahah

 

[KyleHowdy]

Wow, so the Master Volume makes a MASSIVE difference! I know that's obvious, but with the master defaulting at 10, it makes the amp more honky and prone to bit crusher sounds. Turning that down really opens up the amp in a nice way! I can't believe it! It can still tend to collapse on itself a bit if you're not careful when using a neck humbucker, but turning down the bass and or adjusting the master in conjunction can help with that. I just automatically assumed for some silly reason that the master on 10 was for authenticity, like I know some of the non master volume amps were set to before it changed to just amp controls, but never realized that the Matchless had a master volume because I never had experience with the real thing.

I imagine this stuff only sounds better now with the new amp algorithms, which also affects the way drive pedals hit the front end of the amps now for beta firmware 27, no??

what's funny is I had this realization yesterday as well LOL literally the exact same thought about master on 10 for authenticity etc. Turning down the master to 5-7 like the other person said made a huge difference.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

what's funny is I had this realization yesterday as well LOL literally the exact same thought about master on 10 for authenticity etc. Turning down the master to 5-7 like the other person said made a huge difference.

What’s funny though is a lot of people keep it at 10 and say use the gain knob, and achieve fantastic tones that don’t sound like a bit crusher, so I don’t get it hahah

 

[KyleHowdy]

What’s funny though is a lot of people keep it at 10 and say use the gain knob, and achieve fantastic tones that don’t sound like a bit crusher, so I don’t get it hahah

very true! I never had great success with the matchless models until I finally messed with the master.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

very true! I never had great success with the matchless models until I finally messed with the master.

I'm wondering too if the matchless is just not good at tight high gain? I've never owned the real amp or even played one, so I'm not sure what they're made for tone wise. At the time, before gapless switching came about, I tried to find a pedal platform amp that could handle many things from clean to edge of breakup to crunch to even tight high gain. The matchless (at the time just could not do it at all, so found the AC-20 Treble and that seems to work good for all of those scenarios. I've been meaning to rework a new preset though, but that being said, I wonder if I was just trying to make the DC-30 to be something it isn't. People say it's a great pedal platform amp, but I guess I'm wondering what they mean by that, because if tight high gain when needed, I'm not fully convinced.

 

[AxeManDan]

The reason why many feel it does not work as well with drive pedals is due to the bright cap and where you have the gain set. The lower the gain is, the more the affect bright cap has. Just the nature of the beast with Matchless/Vox style amps.

 

[Rogerthat]

Master all the way up with a nobels in front.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

The reason why many feel it does not work as well with drive pedals is due to the bright cap and where you have the gain set. The lower the gain is, the more the affect bright cap has. Just the nature of the beast with Matchless/Vox style amps.

That's interesting though because some of the AC30 models and the AC-20 Treble model tends to take pedals extremely well whereas the DC-30 just turns into a bit crusher in my experience. I know I can just choose a different amp then, but this post is more about learning what this particular amp behaves like and what it's good at and what it's not good at since I don't have or have never played one.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

Master all the way up with a nobels in front.

That's so wild; another one who says to keep the master on 10! It seems the amp falls apart on me if I keep the master on 10, and if I rely on the gain to get the right edge of breakup, it's either not enough and stiff, or too much and takes drives poorly. What type of tones are you going for and what settings/guitar and pickups?

 

[Rumbletone]

I'm wondering too if the matchless is just not good at tight high gain? I've never owned the real amp or even played one, so I'm not sure what they're made for tone wise. At the time, before gapless switching came about, I tried to find a pedal platform amp that could handle many things from clean to edge of breakup to crunch to even tight high gain. The matchless (at the time just could not do it at all, so found the AC-20 Treble and that seems to work good for all of those scenarios. I've been meaning to rework a new preset though, but that being said, I wonder if I was just trying to make the DC-30 to be something it isn't. People say it's a great pedal platform amp, but I guess I'm wondering what they mean by that, because if tight high gain when needed, I'm not fully convinced.

I would say it's absolutely NOT suited to being a 'tight high gain amp'. It excels at touch-sensitive, midgain, Vox-based tones. You can get it quite dirty for leads, but for rhythm it won't be particularly tight at high gain.

For 80s tight high gain I recommend hotrodded Marshalls, Soldano (possibly my favourite Fractal model for higher gain ...), Friedman, Cameron, CAA. For scooped, compressed, 90s nu-metal type high gain ... well I defer to others as that's never been my thing

 

[boyce89976]

takes pedals like a champ, just have to learn how to use it.

This^.

LONG time, real HC30 (Matchless Head/Cab) user. Channel 2, master all the way up, preamp gain set between 2 - 3, cut knob off (no cut), bass switch in position 5 (of 6). Takes every drive pedal I've ever thrown at it.

I'm wondering too if the matchless is just not good at tight high gain? I've never owned the real amp or even played one, so I'm not sure what they're made for tone wise. At the time, before gapless switching came about, I tried to find a pedal platform amp that could handle many things from clean to edge of breakup to crunch to even tight high gain. The matchless (at the time just could not do it at all, so found the AC-20 Treble and that seems to work good for all of those scenarios. I've been meaning to rework a new preset though, but that being said, I wonder if I was just trying to make the DC-30 to be something it isn't. People say it's a great pedal platform amp, but I guess I'm wondering what they mean by that, because if tight high gain when needed, I'm not fully convinced.

You were. It's a low to mid gain amp, and at its best at the edge of breakup (power section breakup, specifically). If you're looking for "tight high gain" I think you're still looking in the wrong place. An AC30 style amp (AC20 included) just isn't ideal for that. I'd probably look at something in the Marshall, 51XX, Friedman, REVV category for that.

The beauty of the Axe III is that you can have 4 amps in one preset via "channels" in the amp block, so why not use the optimal choice for each gain stage?