Looking to invest in an Axe FX 3 - need advice.

T

themarqueeyears

New Member
Hi guys,

My rig is a Tone King Imperial mk2 and Princton 68 Custom and large custom pedal board.
I've been recording it with a ribbon mic and sm57 into some lovely boutique pre's.

Unfortunately. after moving my studio to a new space I have lost my ability to record loud tube amps with mics.

My pro playing friends have all pointed me towards the Axe FX 3 and said it's absolutely stunning and I can record by just
plugging the AES line straight into my RME AES card - brilliant.

So I've had a read through the manual and watched the obligatory Youtube videos and the AFX3 is clearly an amazing unit.

So here's my novice questions that I can't seem to get from the manual.

If I want to go hybrid and use my tube amp and pedal board I need a load box (Suhr/ X Load) I get that.
But the wiring it up has me a touch confused.

I do get the 4CM in principle but ....

Amps and pedal boards take instrument level signal (pickup levels are way below line level and closer to mic level)
all the outputs on the back of the AFX3 appear to be line level?

Does the AFX 3 output "instrument" level signal from it's output 3 into my tube amp?
Is this user controllable from line down to instrument level?
Do I need a re-amp box to drop the signal level as I do now when coming from my interface into my amp (when re-amping)

YT videos seem to show the AFX3 being directly wired into amp > Load box > back into an input on the AFX3.

This would require the AFX3 output 3 to be at "instrument" level and then except a line level input from the load box.

How does the AFX3 handle these different signal level requirements?

Thank you
 
Hello and welcome.
I'm not sure on what you want to accomplish using both your amp and your pedals: usually in a 4CM configuration, you want to use your real amp and the axe for effects, so you have the wiring to place the axe both before and after the amp (before: wah, drive, etc; after: reverbs, delays, you got it).
Regarding levels: following the manual on section 4, 4CM, you should use output 3 at max for unity gain. this means that whatever signal you're putting into, you'll having it out at the same level, differences in level will occur only based on what you put in the axe on the digital signal path:
input1 -- output 3 : same level
input1 -- drive -- output 3: the level will be base on the drive pedal you choose, as if you were putting a drive pedal in front of the amp: you can lower the pedal level just to have a different tone, or you can use the 0gain-maxlevel to boost the amp for high gain tones... it's just an example but you have to think of the blocks in the axe as your pedals and build your chain.

Then you'll go from output 3 to your amp, in the inst input. the amp will make the sound, then you'll go from the effects loop into the axe again to put the effects after the amp, so in the axe you'll use a different input and a different output:
amp fx send -- axe input 4 -- whatever fx you want -- axe output 4 -- amp fx return
Here you don't have the inst/line level problem since even your pedals are working at line level at this stage (but the concept stays the same: the axe will put out the same level you feed it, unless in the signal path you put something that changes the level).
The only missing thing from all of this is the pickups-amp input interaction (the pickups load and input impedance change the resonant frequency... Maybe other people can say more on the topic), but it's just like having a buffer.

I hope this helps. I don't see a point to still use your pedals with the axe: I mean, if you want to use both your amp and your pedals, you don't actually need an axe but just a load box (even for recording purposes: you can enter in your soundcard from the loadbox and use a cab IR in your daw).
 
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Hi ezellohar,

Thank you for that excellent explanation - it's very much appreciated.

I now understand how it works and also the various advantages and limitations of the hybrid approach.

In truth, if I'm dropping using my analog pedals then I would question why I need to replace the amp block with a tube amp.
I'm now thinking .... I'm either getting into modelling or I'm not!

After 30 years of using tube amps and pedals, I'm struggling with the idea of going fully digital (even though I'm sure the AFX3 sounds fantastic in person)

Maybe a load box (X Load) and the Cab Lad 4 software with the payed for Fractal Dynamic IR's is a better way forward for a 60 year old analog luddite like me :)

(though I am open to new technology - from what I've heard of the AFX3 sounds really amazing and so easy to use for recording)

Is the Cab Lab 4 software = to the IR/ cab simulation section of the AFX3 in terms of sound quality? (I realise the latency will be down to my computer system)
 
themarqueeyears said:
In truth, if I'm dropping using my analog pedals then I would question why I need to replace the amp block with a tube amp.
I'm now thinking .... I'm either getting into modelling or I'm not!
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I was thinking the same thing while writing, but I didn't want to suggest to get rid of your amps and pedals on your first interaction on the forum lol. I do honestly think that the axe is good enough that you won't need anything else (and is way - WAY more practical to use than move amps and cabs around!). There are people here who use the 4CM methods and maybe can tell you more, but for me digital is the way.

On IRs: software vs hardware use same files. You have differences, if you use different IR lenght, same lenght = same quality.

But, if you always used real amps, I think there's a thing you have to be aware: the use of IRs introduces a difference, you have always listened to a cab with your ears, with an IR I'll listen to a microphoned cab, the sound (and the feel) is different. Nothing one can't get used to, but worth noting. Personally, I'll go with In ear monitors, and I never looked back, but at first you'll have to get used to them, but usually happens fast :) )
 
Hi ezellohar,

This rig will be only for use in a recording situation (live I only sing and for that I do actually use IEM's)

I've noted your points on the differing feel of reactive loads with a tube amp - I have an Iron Man II built into my Tone King Imperial Mk2 and to be honest I don't really like the way it makes the amp feel and interact with the guitar - so I guess a Reactive Load isn't going to be much better.

I had thought, for silent recording it probably makes sense to just use an AFX3 as a complete solution (from the clips I've heard on YT it sounds truly fantastic!)

I'm in the fortunate position to not have to sell my analog gear to buy the AFX3 - but if my analog starts to gather dust then it will be nice to have the money from selling it :)
 
To be completely honest, I think this is a classic case where an OX Box is the key to victory. I'm a long time fractal user (still remember Ed Degenaro doing a reveal on harmony central of the Axe FX standard) and proponent of modeling. In your case tho, it's going to be a rather steep learning curve that doesn't make a ton of sense, since you already have everything you want. My honest opinion is you will spend a considerable amount of time chasing your tail getting the axe to sound exactly like what you have, especially that last 5% of perfection. With all of that effort, you end up almost exactly where you started... You could run your current rig into a UA Ox Box and be up and running in a week or two. I suppose you might need two of them, or capture a clean track simultaneously and reamp for your second rig, but either way I think it's a quicker path to what you are hoping to accomplish. Your scenario is one of the very few where I'm not preaching about the Axe FX
 
JCBitB said:
To be completely honest, I think this is a classic case where an OX Box is the key to victory. I'm a long time fractal user (still remember Ed Degenaro doing a reveal on harmony central of the Axe FX standard) and proponent of modeling. In your case tho, it's going to be a rather steep learning curve that doesn't make a ton of sense, since you already have everything you want. My honest opinion is you will spend a considerable amount of time chasing your tail getting the axe to sound exactly like what you have, especially that last 5% of perfection. With all of that effort, you end up almost exactly where you started... You could run your current rig into a UA Ox Box and be up and running in a week or two. I suppose you might need two of them, or capture a clean track simultaneously and reamp for your second rig, but either way I think it's a quicker path to what you are hoping to accomplish. Your scenario is one of the very few where I'm not preaching about the Axe FX
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Right on the money.

AXE 3 is unbelievable, and wouldn't trade it for anything. But there is a very considerable learning curve.
I'm almost certain there will be disappointment first, because it won't sound exactly like the sound you're going for. Now, the sound and feel are attainable, but it's going to take effort and time. It's easy to be disappointed then, when all you'd want is the sound in your head that you already have with your current rig.

Then again... once you DO learn it, you'll have opened a sonic universe! You'll essentially have a whole warehouse of boutique amps and cabs + the best effects in the game.
 
I’ll echo the points on the learning curve.

I gigged a tube amp for decades, in stereo as well. I was a tube snob LOL, always rolling in new NOS/VOS tubes. I spent so much time dialing in my sound, lugging a two amp rig back and forth from practice…. Not to mention all the gear that goes with it.

It’s taken me about a month to adjust to the Axe FX3 but I’m now at the point where I have a very good guitar tone, and my band mates can’t tell the difference. I came close to breaking out the tube heads and going 4CM, but I started trying different presets shared here and on Axe Exchange and I’m getting better at tweaking how my amp feels. The new Stealth cabs in the latest firmware really took it over the top for me.

If you’re a gear nerd who’s into digital tech you should adjust fine. Stick with it and ask questions, there is a lot of great help here on the forum.

Once you get used to the unit and its layout it starts to become intuitive and easier to grasp.

I have no regrets going digital, and neither does my back….

Dom
 
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I added a Fryette PS100 to my tube amps years ago and I have always said if O new then what I know now it would have been the third piece of gear I bought after my first guitar and tube amp. That said I now have an axefx3mk2turbo. There is a lot to learn but it isn’t that bad. Several months in I’m still learning and I’m almost 60 so older farts can learn new tricks. The biggest plus for me is playing amps that I will never have an opportunity to play in real life and knowing that even though they are hardwired versions they are darn near there and sound incredible.
 
Thanks guys, I greatly appreciate the replies, insights and sharing your valuable experience.

It's given me some food for thought and actually increased my desire to at least buy an FM3 and get into this amazing technology.

This is a very friendly forum, Fractal has a great community of obviously passionate users.
 
The guys above give solid answers - I'll just add that you can spend days, weeks, months, etc just playing thought the AXE 3 stuff alone, and especially at the current firmware be absolutely inspired and amazed at what tones come out so easily, and how that can inspire you to play things you've never played. Writing and recording can be a whole new adventure with so many sound palettes at your finger tips.

So while we all strive to continue to be dedicated to our "usual tones" and craft, set aside time to explore and be delighted. That's what I've been doing for the last two months 3 hours every morning. And I haven't even come close to discovering 1/2 of it.

The Fractal is an incredible world...
 
Luth2000 said:
The guys above give solid answers - I'll just add that you can spend days, weeks, months, etc just playing thought the AXE 3 stuff alone.
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Holy crap ain’t that the truth! I flew through all the initial amp choices and I mean flew and it took over a month. Now I have to go back and dig into each deeper! I have done very little actual tweaking yet! I probably won’t get to that point for another six months or so!
 
I plug directly into my Axe FX III, and that goes straight into my DAW, and a pair of Yamaha HS8. No tube amp, no pedals, no speaker cabinet. The Axe does it all. That said, that's not where I started. I spent 30 years using a conventional set up with the usual pedals and big iron tube amps, into 4x12 cabs.

I initially used my Axe for gigging. I'd plug into it, then into a power amp and conventional guitar cabinet. Having amp-in-the-room sound/feel is what seemed familiar to me, and was the stepping stone I needed. Now I just go direct/FRFR.

If you're recording and not gigging, you may find what you need without the hybrid setup. Either way, I will say that it does take time. Some of us have spent decades developing proficiency with pedals and amps, and we aren't going to master a new paradigm over night. It's worth sticking with it though, and it opens up a world of possibilities.
 
You guys do make an AFX3 sound very appealing on so many levels.

If I was starting out from scratch then being honest an AFX3 would be a no brainer.

This would be a big transition for me, but it sounds like many of you have navigated these waters already and arrived at a very happy place.
 
themarqueeyears said:
You guys do make an AFX3 sound very appealing on so many levels.

If I was starting out from scratch then being honest an AFX3 would be a no brainer.

This would be a big transition for me, but it sounds like many of you have navigated these waters already and arrived at a very happy place.
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I switched after 30 years of gigging/recording with rack systems, amps, pedalboards, custom cables, switching systems, buffers, the whole nine yards.

I haven't sold my analog gear yet; it's in storage. (I couldn't bring myself to do that quite yet.) That said, it's literally all sat there dormant and gathering dust since Fractal day #1. My back says 'good riddance' to all of it, frankly.
 
themarqueeyears said:
I suspect that's exactly what will happen to me - my analog gear will start to gather dust!
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Mine don’t anymore now as they did before. Axe lets me use amps I’ll never have and not buy amps that were on my radar! Saving me a fortune. For now. Oddly I still would like to build a few more cabs. I have some speakers that need a home. But that goes beyond tone to wants and desire which are not quantifiable.
 
themarqueeyears said:
If I was starting out from scratch then being honest an AFX3 would be a no brainer.
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And that's just it for me, and what I was trying to get across earlier. If you needed access to world class effects and amps, the AxeFX is just perfect. If your heart is set on rebuilding your exact board and set up, warts and all, then I'd just find a way to use that. If you are perfectly happy with your current set up but not married to it and it's exact idiosyncrasies then all my hesitations on recommending the AxeFx III evaporate. It's not hard to create a patch that's as good as what ever it is you may have, I just think that a perfect clone (while possible) could easily take you years and resources that might be better spent on making music.
 
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