Fun with Recto

[elvis]

Always nice to have a monstrous Recto on hand.

Notes:
8 Scenes!
4 Cab channels - cool variants
Reverb, Delay and Pitch have Input Gain controlled by External 2 - if you don't have this available, try setting these to 60%

 

[oraab]

Hey, this is a great preset, thank you for sharing. Scene 7 is especially great. I've always struggled to perfect the high-gain Mesa tones during my own attempts, but this one worked flawlessly without any tweaking.

 

[WhiteRoom]

Great stuff thanks. Perfect timing for me because I've been experimenting with different pedals in front of these models, so now I can try your Preset with them

 

[elvis]

Jamming along with Ra on my Kiesel 7-string. I did drop the boost from 15dB to 12dB to clean it up a little.

And this for all the cabs

 

[WhiteRoom]

Just watched their virtual concert on the tube. Very impressive. The vocals and timing are almost flawless, by any reasonable standard. A decent Police cover in there as well

Out of interest does your 7 string have active or passive pups?

 

[elvis]

Just watched their virtual concert on the tube. Very impressive. The vocals and timing are almost flawless, by any reasonable standard. A decent Police cover in there as well

Out of interest does your 7 string have active or passive pups?

I LOVE the cover of Every Little Thing.

I have a Kiesel K7 with Lithium (passive) pickups that are pretty bright and tight, but not super high output.

 

[WhiteRoom]

I LOVE the cover of Every Little Thing.

I have a Kiesel K7 with Lithium (passive) pickups that are pretty bright and tight, but not super high output.

I have a Charvel 7 string with DiMarzio pickups and a 5 way switch that coil splits in positions 2 & 4, but the trem is pita and I keep meaning to get it fixed. It sounds really good though with your Preset. I'm currently working my way through different drives and pre-amps to see where it takes me

 

[macky7tyseven]

What kind of cabs do you play with that preset?

 

[elvis]

What kind of cabs do you play with that preset?

The cabs that are in the cab block, just factory ones. I'm actually just using channel 1 of the cab block, added the others for fun.

 

[elvis]

I have a Charvel 7 string with DiMarzio pickups and a 5 way switch that coil splits in positions 2 & 4, but the trem is pita and I keep meaning to get it fixed. It sounds really good though with your Preset. I'm currently working my way through different drives and pre-amps to see where it takes me

I love Charvel guitars. By "fixed" do you mean repaired? Or blocked? I like the Tremol-no for blocking when I want. I have a TON of experience setting up locking trems and the T-No is an extra layer of PITA, but once set up, works very well.

Also, I added FU-Tone silent springs to all my trem guitars, really helps when playing high-gain staccato stuff. Works just as well to stuff a little foam into the regular springs too, and I've done that as well.

 

[elvis]

Here is the Red channel again with the changes from above.

 

[elvis]

And the Orange channel similarly, if you like more mids and a bit more open character, which I do.

 

[WhiteRoom]

I love Charvel guitars. By "fixed" do you mean repaired? Or blocked? I like the Tremol-no for blocking when I want. I have a TON of experience setting up locking trems and the T-No is an extra layer of PITA, but once set up, works very well.

Also, I added FU-Tone silent springs to all my trem guitars, really helps when playing high-gain staccato stuff. Works just as well to stuff a little foam into the regular springs too, and I've done that as well.

Those are useful tips, thanks. I meant the springs are squeaking and it occasionally doesn't return to zero on the posts, which again I think is related to the springs not being very good, or poorly setup. I've had a tinker but I'm not a luthier... where I could get my Strat 2 point trem setup really easily and the old school trem on my Jazzmaster setup relatively easily, this one has been a real pain for whatever reason and I will probably just pay an expert to advise and do it for me

 

[elvis]

Those are useful tips, thanks. I meant the springs are squeaking and it occasionally doesn't return to zero on the posts, which again I think is related to the springs not being very good, or poorly setup. I've had a tinker but I'm not a luthier... where I could get my Strat 2 point trem setup really easily and the old school trem on my Jazzmaster setup relatively easily, this one has been a real pain for whatever reason and I will probably just pay an expert to advise and do it for me

If they are not locking, you'll want to make sure the nut is as slippery as possible. I use a mechanical pencil to put graphite in the string slots and add Big Bends Nut Sauce on top of that. The next issue I find is setting the springs with a good amount of stretch. Springs have very linear force over distance, so they work VERY well in a trem: F=k*x. However, they can become nonlinear if under-stretched or over-stretched. I usually set the spring tension so that the springs have a bit of stretch. Often I remove a spring and tighten the claw. I have historically shortened springs by a loop or two as well to really dial it in, particularly where removing a spring was too much of a jump in tension. You can get different size springs as well - either shorter or heavier. I use two different sizes from FU Tone, red and black. Sometimes I mix and match.

These vids are great for overall guitar tech: https://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/index.htm

 

[Brutal1ty]

Jamming along with Ra on my Kiesel 7-string. I did drop the boost from 15dB to 12dB to clean it up a little.

And this for all the cabs
View attachment 141619

Hello! Just curious!

If there are two cabinets together, wouldn't it be easier to make the cuts on the Preamp screen?


What is the difference between making the cuts on the Preamp screen and the Cab screen?

 

[elvis]

Hello! Just curious!

If there are two cabinets together, wouldn't it be easier to make the cuts on the Preamp screen?
View attachment 141728

What is the difference between making the cuts on the Preamp screen and the Cab screen?

I don't think there is a significant difference, but I find it convenient to make them in the cab block. There has been a lot of discussion about how linear the various blocks are and where is the best place to filter. My opinion is that later in the chain is better.
Another point there is that if I choose different filters for different cabs, I can have the cab channel change both cab AND cutoff characteristic. And I don't always use the same filters for the two cabs. The cab block is a great place for a filter

 

[playmusic]

I don't think there is a significant difference, but I find it convenient to make them in the cab block. There has been a lot of discussion about how linear the various blocks are and where is the best place to filter. My opinion is that later in the chain is better.
Another point there is that if I choose different filters for different cabs, I can have the cab channel change both cab AND cutoff characteristic. And I don't always use the same filters for the two cabs. The cab block is a great place for a filter

A lot of players are familiar with ballpark estimates of where the low cut and high cuts fall on a physical guitar speaker(cab). In part due to the fact that speaker manufacturers like Celestion, publish graphs with the frequency range and response of their speakers. For example, for many speakers at around 70-100hz on the low end and dropping off on the high end around 5khz.

It occurs to me that I don't have any similar reference for the frequency range and intensity/level at various frequencies being generated by most guitar amps. I guess the tone stack will determine that to a large extent. Seems like that might be handy information for setting cuts in the preamp section. Just as knowing the stats for guitar speakers is handy for dialing in cuts in the cab. Or maybe it just doesn't make that much difference in the digital realm.

 

[elvis]

A lot of players are familiar with ballpark estimates of where the low cut and high cuts fall on a physical guitar speaker(cab). In part due to the fact that speaker manufacturers like Celestion, publish graphs with the frequency range and response of their speakers. For example, for many speakers at around 70-100hz on the low end and dropping off on the high end around 5khz.

It occurs to me that I don't have any similar reference for the frequency range and intensity/level at various frequencies being generated by most guitar amps. I guess the tone stack will determine that to a large extent. Seems like that might be handy information for setting cuts in the preamp section. Just as knowing the stats for guitar speakers is handy for dialing in cuts in the cab. Or maybe it just doesn't make that much difference in the digital realm.

The CAB IR already manages the frequency cuts from the speakers and cab. The high and low cuts are BEYOND the modeling aspect, they are there to cover EQ tweaks you might do in a studio or live to get the guitar to fit better in the mix.

Similarly, the preamp and power amp modeling already manage the band-limiting of a real amp.

 

[playmusic]

The CAB IR already manages the frequency cuts from the speakers and cab. The high and low cuts are BEYOND the modeling aspect, they are there to cover EQ tweaks you might do in a studio or live to get the guitar to fit better in the mix.

Similarly, the preamp and power amp modeling already manage the band-limiting of a real amp.

The IR theoretically manages the frequency cuts, but in the real world, depending on your preset and rig, you may have to use additional EQ and cuts. Digital modeling rigs (modeler + FRFR) are not directly analogous to more "traditional" guitar amp/cab setups and I don't think all EQ adjustments or cuts that they can require can be attributed solely to the cuts you would ordinarily make in a studio or live on more traditional gear. Don't want to relitigate why this seems to be the case when using modeling, particularly through an FRFR, as it has been talked about at great length elsewhere with considerably more expertise than I could bring to bear on the topic.

The question of where in the signal chain and how best to set cuts seems to come up frequently. As per my previous post, that conversation is often informed by what a typical guitar speaker response and range is, while neglecting or ignoring what is happening in the preamp and power amp. Maybe different preamps have locations in the frequency range, similar in this respect to a guitar speaker, where they start to drop off. I have no idea. Much of that is probably already baked into the amp model block (just like it is in an IR).

Not even sure if drawing this analogy to how we use range/response reference graphs from actual guitar speakers when applying cuts in IRs is significant or even applicable when talking about looking for similar types of amplifier data to inform our choice of cuts in the preamp section. Just curious and out of my depth.

 

[elvis]

The IR theoretically manages the frequency cuts, but in the real world, depending on your preset and rig, you may have to use additional EQ and cuts. Digital modeling rigs (modeler + FRFR) are not directly analogous to more "traditional" guitar amp/cab setups and I don't think all EQ adjustments or cuts that they can require can be attributed solely to the cuts you would ordinarily make in a studio or live on more traditional gear. Don't want to relitigate why this seems to be the case when using modeling, particularly through an FRFR, as it has been talked about at great length elsewhere with considerably more expertise than I could bring to bear on the topic.

The question of where in the signal chain and how best to set cuts seems to come up frequently. As per my previous post, that conversation is often informed by what a typical guitar speaker response and range is, while neglecting or ignoring what is happening in the preamp and power amp. Maybe different preamps have locations in the frequency range, similar in this respect to a guitar speaker, where they start to drop off. I have no idea. Much of that is probably already baked into the amp model block (just like it is in an IR).

Not even sure if drawing this analogy to how we use range/response reference graphs from actual guitar speakers when applying cuts in IRs is significant or even applicable when talking about looking for similar types of amplifier data to inform our choice of cuts in the preamp section. Just curious and out of my depth.

I will also not turn this into an argument about whether the FM9 is accurate, though it is very much in my area of expertise to discuss.

It really doesn't matter whether the EQ you want is modeled exactly. Just make any cuts you like to get the sound you want. As the filters are available anywhere in the chain you like, including with GEQ and PEQ that can be placed anywhere, try different things. The FM9 is a total playground!