FM3 Looper and assigning foot switches

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Digitalman

Member
I've had my FM3 since March now and I'm a huge fan. Today I decided to replicate my Akai Headrush that was a mainstay of my rig for many years for looping guitar. I eventually got more complicated and started routing guitar thru Ableton for looping purposes. Mainly to keep loops in synch with other sequences going on.

Yes - I googled this.

How is it not possible to map the 3 foot switches to the looping controls? Record/play/stop? Why are people having to use 3rd party external foot switches to accomplish this? Why even offer a looper block if there is no way to control it natively?

And I also hoped that the FM3 had the midi capability to sync with a global DAW clock to keep guitar and synth loops in synch. From my research, apparently this is also not possible.

Any advice? Thanks.
 
I'm pretty sure there's a factory layout for the Looper that does this (there is on the FCs and the FM9)... Unless you mean controlling Ableton? Your post is a bit confusing...

And as far as I'm aware ALL Fractal devices will sync to Midi beat clock. Note that this relevant only for things that are linked to Tempo.
 
Hey, thanks guys. I've been enjoying the amp models and have messed around with assigning buttons to specific effects. I haven't gotten deep enough into it to program complex scenes yet. I didn't find any discussion about the looper online and couldn't find a video for it - but yeah, there it is on page 8, layout 5 Loop control. Thanks @mr_fender. I didn't realize there was a layout you could assign to the block. I was coming from the angle of 'I want this button to do this'.

And sorry if I was confusing by mentioning Ableton. I'm used to programming midi in that. I'm not looking to control Ableton from the FM3, just sync guitar loops with its clock. I have some more experimenting to do. Glad to be part of the community and I appreciate the responses and the patience.
 
Digitalman said:
I didn't realize there was a layout you could assign to the block. I was coming from the angle of 'I want this button to do this'.
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Just to be clear, the layouts are global and it's not really "assigned to the block".

The factory layouts are there to use as examples but you could just as well create your own.

Make sure to read the FM3 manual as well as the Fractal Blocks Guide and Footswitch Function Guide.
 
Digitalman said:
Hey, thanks guys. I've been enjoying the amp models and have messed around with assigning buttons to specific effects. I haven't gotten deep enough into it to program complex scenes yet. I didn't find any discussion about the looper online and couldn't find a video for it - but yeah, there it is on page 8, layout 5 Loop control. Thanks @mr_fender. I didn't realize there was a layout you could assign to the block. I was coming from the angle of 'I want this button to do this'.

And sorry if I was confusing by mentioning Ableton. I'm used to programming midi in that. I'm not looking to control Ableton from the FM3, just sync guitar loops with its clock. I have some more experimenting to do. Glad to be part of the community and I appreciate the responses and the patience.
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In my experience I assigned looper footswitch to just one function. Only press, nothing for hold. Sometimes when looping I hold the switch a little bit longer and I mess with the recording if hold function is enabled.
 
Fredlos120 said:
So how many "loops" are folks able to play/record and play over? (Admittedly have not read up on it yet.)
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You can overdub indefinitely; I've never gone too deep to experience any fidelity loss, but I'm sure it's there if you try to layer like 20 things lol. There aren't multiple "tracks," if that's what you mean, though.
 
unix-guy said:
Just to be clear, the layouts are global and it's not really "assigned to the block".

The factory layouts are there to use as examples but you could just as well create your own.

Make sure to read the FM3 manual as well as the Fractal Blocks Guide and Footswitch Function Guide.
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Ok, thanks. Back to RTFM then I guess. I've read them all including the blocks and footswitch guide, but didn't walk away with the knowledge to assign footswitches to the looper block. I figured there would be a tutorial somewhere but I'm coming up with nothing. Hence a lot of mentions on this forum about 'just get a Boss FS-6'. Which is what led me to my first conclusion.

I have a simple preset with a Looper, Super Reverb and Cab set up. I navigated to the Layout 5 Looper control from that preset and had it working, but it toggles to view 2 when I hold erase. It's also copies these controls over to my other presets, 'globally' I guess. More manual diving and experimenting. This this is not very intuitive, but it sounds great.

When I added Drive, Chorus and Delay to my Hiwatt preset and assigned the 3 switches to them, it also added those 3 effects globally. That confused me as well. Oh well. RTFM...

Edit to say I should probably just work on one large preset from scratch with a Super for clean, a Hiwatt for dirty with mod/delay/loop.

Thanks.
 
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Digitalman said:
…but didn't walk away with the knowledge to assign footswitches to the looper block.
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The looper functions are all assignable to switches, which is how the “LOOPER” layout is created for the FC foot controllers or the FM3/FM9 built-in switches.

It’s entirely possible to add a single Play control into another layout, controls are controls are controls. We determine what they do when we assign them and you can mix and match however you want because a layout is just 1 of 9 global groups of 12 switches. Normally we reserve the top group to the master layout but it’s not necessary … if you know what you are doing. So you could define one layout, or all, to contain Play, and perhaps a specific layout to also contain the rest of the looper’s functions.

Layouts are “global”, meaning we define them once and they are able to be used with every preset equally, and they don’t change as you switch presets. Sometimes we want a layout to change when the preset changes, perhaps because that Play button makes sense for that preset and none of the others. Per-Preset overrides can be assigned to switches in a layout that will assume the control you tell it to, just to give you the flexibility of creating the layouts for the entire machine with fine-grained control of each preset’s switches. In other words, the best of both.

I’d recommend spending time in the layout editor looking at the default layout and how a switch can enable/disable an effect block, or how it can change to a different layout, and get the concept of layouts and views. Understand those and you will be in a good place to understand building or modifying layouts, and will be ready to master the really fun layout links that help turn the switching into something that almost anticipates your needs.

And remember to backup your entire layout before starting to modify layouts. Your future self will thank you.
 
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Digitalman said:
Ok, thanks. Back to RTFM then I guess. I've read them all including the blocks and footswitch guide, but didn't walk away with the knowledge to assign footswitches to the looper block. I figured there would be a tutorial somewhere but I'm coming up with nothing. Hence a lot of mentions on this forum about 'just get a Boss FS-6'. Which is what led me to my first conclusion
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The Looper is a bit of an outlier now that I revisit the manuals.

Here's the key point from the FM9 manual related to assignment of control for Looper functions (this is pretty minimal, but if you navigate to the Looper page of the Midi/Remote settings it should be clearer):

06AB4BBF-1015-4C53-B387-EB7D386790D9.jpeg

Check out your settings and the switch settings for the Looper layout to get a better grasp of what is being done.

I suspect Fractal didn't write up any how-to steps because there's already a Looper layout present.

I'm not sure about recommendations for external switches for the Looper controls as that doesn't help with switch assignment. Were you maybe looking at FM3-related posts (since it has only 3 onboard switches)?
Digitalman said:
I have a simple preset with a Looper, Super Reverb and Cab set up. I navigated to the Layout 5 Looper control from that preset and had it working, but it toggles to view 2 when I hold erase. It's also copies these controls over to my other presets, 'globally' I guess. More manual diving and experimenting. This this is not very intuitive, but it sounds great.
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Why are you holding Erase? Sounds like there is a Hold function on that switch. Remember that switches can have a Tap and Hold function, so press and hold is not going to get the same result as tap.
Digitalman said:
When I added Drive, Chorus and Delay to my Hiwatt preset and assigned the 3 switches to them, it also added those 3 effects globally. That confused me as well. Oh well. RTFM...
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As mentioned above (and in the manuals), Layouts are global. You can use Per Preset overrides to have unique switches per preset.
Digitalman said:
Edit to say I should probably just work on one large preset from scratch with a Super for clean, a Hiwatt for dirty with mod/delay/loop.
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You can definitely do that...
 
Thanks @Greg Ferguson and @unix-guy for those in depth responses, I do appreciate the help. I would have continued googling and manual diving if I had found a clear cut tutorial somewhere, instead of starting a thread about it. I did manage to get my global OD/MOD/DLY back to all the standard presets, which is fine.

I haven't been gigging for a while, so I haven't had a specific need for presets and layouts yet. I've just been enjoying the tones...since March, lol.

Just a bit of background, I was running my guitar thru Ableton and out to my amp (Super Reverb) using 2 Logidy UMI-3s, 1 for Guitar Rig effects and 1 for the Looper controls and 1 King of Tone for OD. I was doing a lot of synth loops with a Push 2 and synching them with my guitar loops. Assigning midi, via the Push, and the UMI-3s and creating devices in Max 4 Live...it got to be a bit much. I wanted to get back into 'guitar-centric' music and start from scratch. So I got a Charvel DK24 HSS FR and an FM3. Completely new territory for me...

But - I would like to at least loop with the FM3. And I'm holding 'erase' from muscle memory I guess, to clear a loop with the Headrush or Ableton looper. There's a hold function to toggle to the next 3 controls which I don't need. I'll figure it out and get there eventually, but it's no cakewalk.

Thanks.
 
Digitalman said:
So I got a Charvel DK24 HSS FR
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Tell me more... FR as in Floyd Rose?

I have a DK-24 USA Select HSS 2-point and a MIM (that was the gateway version ;))

Would love a Floyd Rose version and chatted recently with the local guitar store that is now an authorized Charvel custom shop dealer about getting one.
 
unix-guy said:
Tell me more... FR as in Floyd Rose?

I have a DK-24 USA Select HSS 2-point and a MIM (that was the gateway version ;))

Would love a Floyd Rose version and chatted recently with the local guitar store that is now an authorized Charvel custom shop dealer about getting one.
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Haha, ok sure. Ah yeah, Floyd Rose indeed. This is my 4th ‘superstrat’, the others being actual Fenders I modded myself and a BC Rich in my teens. But this is my first Charvel and Floyd, and man I can’t believe I waited so long.

I have a 335, an LP, a Tele and a Jag. All US made. My DK 24 is a Pro Mod MIM, it totally doesn’t matter. Pro Mod 24 HSS FR in Specific Ocean. I’ve tried everything, a few PRSs, SGs, Rics, Gretsches even…all the trems out there. I’m not really a shredder, but it’s not outside my wheelhouse either. I grew up on Rush, etc. and when EVH passed I tried to put my finger on what that vibe was about all about - 25.5” scale and a humbucker. The snap and the growl together. And the Floyd makes it a beast. Subtle surf to dive bombs, but also floating, which I was never able to bond with on Strats. Floyds float fine, no bending sharp while palm muting. But mine’s recessed and that may be why.

Anyway, I burnt out on the complex stuff I was doing. Not electronic or EDM by any means, lots of classical and world samples being triggered in Ableton. Which I think gets a bad rap for being an ‘electronic’ music DAW. I wondered ‘what was the exact opposite guitar rig from a vintage Suoer and an LP?’ To do a total sonic 180? Charvel and FM3! And I couldn’t be happier. I can do anything with this combo man. Swiss army rig. Jazz to metal.

Sorry for the long post - but you asked. I was tired of all the menu diving and midi assigning I had been doing in Live and have just been enjoying my new guitar tones (loads of them) for the past 9 months. It’s SO great to have my Marshalls, Hiwatts, Mesas and Voxes back! And to be honest, it was an LP into a Super demo I heard that finally sold me on Fractal. I was like - damn, that’s MY rig.
 
Digitalman said:
I have a 335, an LP, a Tele and a Jag. All US made. My DK 24 is a Pro Mod MIM, it totally doesn’t matter. Pro Mod 24 HSS FR in Specific Ocean.
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Oh, right - I totally forgot about those... I should try one but I'm hooked on the roasted Maple neck with Pau Ferro fretboard.

I'm not sure why they don't offer both types.

The MIM is excellent value for what they cost!
 
Ugly Bunny said:
You can overdub indefinitely; I've never gone too deep to experience any fidelity loss, but I'm sure it's there if you try to layer like 20 things lol. There aren't multiple "tracks," if that's what you mean, though.
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Thanks, UB. I guess each overdub is what I meant by track.
 
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