Wish Loading AXE presets. 5 options to help manage exceeding blocks

[BobXX]

Foreword:​

I was encouraged to purchase FM9 T in addition to my AXE FXIII T, when I found that AXE's presets can be easily loaded by FM9 Edit.
I use FM9 in narrow stages or because of limited transportation capacity. I use the same presets, adjusted for the FM9 limits.
I think FM9 owners will be happy if we help them even more in importing and adapting presets made for the AXE.

The problem:​

FM9-Edit doesn't load blocks that are actually or apparenty beyond the FM9 limits.
It happens even if they are the only ones of that type in the preset, just because of their name, not because FM9 limits were actually exceeded.
E.g. a PITCH2, will simply disappear even if there's no PITCH1 in the preset. (*)
It also removes all the connections to them, sometimes making less easy to reconstruct and adapt the preset.

5 Suggestions/wishes: at least one of them will help a lot (I think 2nd and 4th will be great in general).​

1) loading a preset that has only 1 Pitch named "Pitch2", just load it as "Pitch", like it does with "Pitch1"

The inner FM9 logic receiving the Sysex preset could be:​

Load first pitch (regardless is 1 or 2) as "PITCH", if a "PITCH1" is then received it will overwrite the first one.​

2) best solution:

Importing an AXE preset with exceeding blocks (eg. 2 PITCHes, 3 DELAYs) allow the user to choose which ones of same type to keep.​

Instead of deleting them, they could firstly appear in the editor as "X disabled / grayed" (not loaded to hardware),​

maintaining the connections with those blocks, very useful to understand the original structure and manage it.​

Than the user can delete them or decide to enable them by eliminating before another equal block.​

We could even force the user to clear all disabled blocks before it can be used, like a 140% CPU preset.​

​

3) for AXE FXIII EDITOR: make it possible to directly RENAME/exchange name "Pitch2" as "Pitch1" maintaining all its current settings,
so we can export it and reimport in to FM9 Edit without problems

​

4) SaveToLibrary/Load and copy/paste of a block with ALL 8 scenes related settings: A-B-C-D channel choices and Bypass settings.

This is something that will avoid a lot of errors because scene/channels&on-off currently aren't kept from that block but from previous unrelated works or zeroed: too easy to forget.​

If this were an option, I'd use it 100,00% of times, saving really A LOT of time, then eventually make changes starting from an identical block behaviour. This will also speed up and help in manually "renaming" blocks by copying them.​

​

Save to Library:​

It could be a third option in the Save to Library function, or just including the block's scene settings in the current "Save Entire Block [include modifiers and scene settings]"​

This will also preserve the alignment of scene/channels settings with modifiers set to work with 1 channel only.​

Doing so the load into a similar preset will be very rapid without the need to rebuild scene channels and bypass (easy to forget).​

​

Copy/Paste inside same preset:​

Suppose we have Scene1 Clean - Scene2 Rhythm - Scene3 Lead:​

if I copy an AMP, a DEL, a PEQ, a PITCH... the first thing I expect is to keep and paste their respective block's scene channels/bypass settings too, not to be get from previous unrelated works nor zeroed.​

5) Offline Tool just to arrange blocks' numbers (no parameters editing) on .syx preset files. A sort of AXE-to-FM compatibiliser
E.g. to swap PITCH1 and PITCH2 numbers


(*) NOTE: One of more annoying case IMHO is with AF3 preset with 2 PITCH (100% of mine). I currently split them in two different presets for FM9, one with PITCH1 and the other with PITCH2 (both renamed as PITCH). Than I use Program Map to rebuild compatible presets/scenes numbering.

 

[BobXX]

[ included in the first post ]

 

[mr_fender]

I think maybe saving the block to the block library in the editor will allow you to copy the settings from one block iteration to another. I can't remember for certain, but I believe that's the case. I know global blocks are specific to each iteration, but I think saved .blk files work for all of them.

Would be nice to be able to swap between iterations easily from the menu though. I've got a few presets that ended up with a Delay 2 block and I'll sometimes forget and wonder why my Delay switch in my layout isn't turning it on or off.

 

[BobXX]

I think maybe saving the block to the block library in the editor will allow you to copy the settings from one block iteration to another. I can't remember for certain, but I believe that's the case. I know global blocks are specific to each iteration, but I think saved .blk files work for all of them.

Unfortunately even the "Save Entire Block [include modifiers]" doesn't save scene channelABCD & Bypass settings. The editor just remembers the ones used for e.g. Delay1 and Delay2, even if cancelled, but never restores the ones of the saved file.

 

[unix-guy]

Unfortunately even the "Save Entire Block [include modifiers]" doesn't save scene ABCD/ON-OFF settings. The editor just remembers the ones used for e.g. Delay1 and Delay2, even if cancelled, but never restores the ones of the saved file.

Because those are properties of the preset, not the block...

 

[BobXX]

Because those are properties of the preset, not the block...

I understand this point of view, but the pratical results aren't good, time consuming, with high risk to make errors.

When I copy a Block inside the same preset to a new block, for what reason doesn't it copy/paste its scene ABCD channels and Bypass settings ?

They are properties of both scenes and the block: e.g if I set a modifier to work with channel D and channel D isn't set correctly in the right scene, things simply doesn't work.
IMHO it's something that an user expects naturally. Sure I expect it

On the contrary, every copy/paste or save/load I do, I need to manually and patiently copy and set one by one channels and ON/OFF settings... boring and risky.

The same concept applies Saving a Block to Library (especially with Save Entire Block [include modifiers] ) option:

I expect to save everything related to it, in order to make it works correctly when pasted/loaded days or months after in another preset,
without the need to remember the original preset from where I copied it to manually reconstruct ABCD channels and Bypass or remember all the strategies I thought ages ago...

Save... Load... it works. Simple.

 

[unix-guy]

I understand this point of view, but the pratical results aren't good, time consuming, with high risk to make errors.

When I copy a Block inside the same preset to a new block, for what reason doesn't it copy/paste its scene ABCD and ON/OFF settings ?

They are properties of both scenes and the block: e.g if I set a modifier to work with channel D and channel D isn't set correctly in the right scene, things simply doesn't work.
IMHO it's something that an user expects naturally. Sure I expect it

On the contrary, every copy/paste or save/load I do, I need to manually and patiently copy and set one by one channels and ON/OFF settings... boring and risky.

The same concept applies Saving a Block to Library (especially with Save Entire Block [include modifiers] ) option:

I expect to save everything related to it, in order to make it works correctly when pasted/loaded days or months after in another preset,
without the need to remember the original preset from where I copied it to manually reconstruct ABCD channels and ON/OFF or remember all the strategies I thought ages ago...

Save... Load... it works. Simple.

I'm pretty sure it's a fact, not a point of view... But I've been wrong before

Whether the block is on or off or what channel is selected is "outside" the block itself (in the preset/scene settings). In fact, the whole point of scenes is about exactly those settings.

And for the record, when I copy a block or save it to the library, in almost all cases I would definitely not want the behavior you're asking for.

Most of your suggestions above are specific to particular use cases.

There may be some way to save those additional settings as another optional type of block into the library, like:

• Save Channel
• Save Block
• Save Block + Scene settings

But that's really a question for Fractal to answer.

 

[BobXX]

There may be some way to save those additional settings as another optional type of block into the library, like:

• Save Channel
• Save Block
• Save Block + Scene settings

But that's really a question for Fractal to answer.

THIS could be a nice solution, a third option in the Save to Library function, or just include the scene settings in the current "Save Entire Block [include modifiers and scene settings]"
Then the load into a similar preset will be very rapid without the need to rebuild scene channels and on/off.

Thinking about copy/paste inside the same preset, suppose I have scene1 clean, scene2 rhythm, scene3 lead:

if I copy an AMP, a DEL, a PITCH the first thing I expect is to keep and paste their respective scene channels/bypass settings too,
not to get them from previous unrelated works.
In my case until now this happened 100% of times.

It looks like the difference of points of view of an engineer and a musician... and I am both

 

[unix-guy]

What you're proposing in #2 isn't possible.

The grid shows what's loaded on the hardware. Remember that the editor is a "client" of the physical unit.

What's loaded on the hardware must be supported by the hardware, including block instances and CPU consumption.

 

[BobXX]

What you're proposing in #2 isn't possible.

The grid shows what's loaded on the hardware. Remember that the editor is a "client" of the physical unit.

What's loaded on the hardware must be supported by the hardware, including block instances and CPU consumption.

This is interesting.
So when I load a preset previously saved in my PC, the editor actually directly sends it to the hardware, without a prior "understanding" of it, than it shows what the hardware "understood".

In this case everything have to be seen in a totally different perspective.
The import features has to be implemented into FM9 itself, much more difficult (impossible?) than doing them in the hardware.

Our hopes rely again in feature #4 then...

 

[GlennO]

​

The problem:​

FM9-Edit doesn't load blocks that are actually or apparenty beyond the FM9 limits.
It happens even if they are the only ones of that type in the preset, just because of their name, not because FM9 limits were actually exceeded. E.g. a PITCH2, will simply disappear even if there's no PITCH1 in the preset. (*)

The way the block types are enumerated in the AxeFX is a bit of a weak point in the architecture. That makes it easier to implement remote control, but makes the addition of blocks somewhat inflexible. I suspect we'll see that changed in the AxeFX IV to be more like other modelers where you just add types of blocks to the preset without having to choose a numbered one from a limited list for each block type. So you'll probably have to wait until then to see progress on this.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

When I move presets designed for the FX3 to the FM units, I adjust the preset on the FX3 first so that it won’t be mangled later during the transfer.

The FX3 is the big playground and has all the blocks, but in a preset containing multiple blocks of a certain type the odds are really good that only certain channels of those blocks are actually the sound desired. I switch scenes in the scene manager looking at what the scenes are doing to the blocks, such as enabling/bypassing or changing channels, and try to figure out if I can combine the channels into one block. If so, and I can rewire the layout and retain the functionality, I change it. That’s worked well with some complex presets but…

Some times it’s not possible to reduce the preset to fit. At that point it needs to be broken into two separate presets.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

So when I load a preset previously saved in my PC, the editor actually directly sends it to the hardware, without a prior "understanding" of it, than it shows what the hardware "understood".

Yep.

In this case everything have to be seen in a totally different perspective.
The import features has to be implemented into FM9 itself, much more difficult (impossible?) than doing them in the hardware.

The modeler is somewhat like a mainframe computer with terminals connected to it, with the editor and FC units acting as the terminals. The modeler gets a command to do something, processes it, then sends the results back and updates the display. Kinda.

 

[BobXX]

When I move presets designed for the FX3 to the FM units, I adjust the preset on the FX3 first so that it won’t be mangled later during the transfer.

The FX3 is the big playground and has all the blocks, but in a preset containing multiple blocks of a certain type the odds are really good that only certain channels of those blocks are actually the sound desired. I switch scenes in the scene manager looking to what the scenes are doing to the blocks, such as enabling/bypassing or changing channels, and try to figure out if I can combine the channels into one block. If so, and I can rewire the layout and retain the functionality, I change it. That’s worked well with some complex presets but…

Some times it’s not possible to reduce the preset to fit. At that point it needs to be broken into two separate presets.

Exactly what I actually do.
I use FX3 to play and build the sounds I need (about 90...),
and I learned to already take in account the next transfers to FM9... (compact rig for compact situations)

For that reason I totally avoid the use of the double source modifiers in FX3, the worst incompatibility issue for me,
it's a cool and intelligent feature indeed, love it, but very very difficult to be adjusted later for FM9 (a real pity with ~26 modifiers unused...).

The second most annoying issue is PITCH.
80% of my presets uses 2, one virtual capo/octaver and one as harmonizer, tipycal IMO.

In this case for FM9 I break it into two separate presets like you do, since rarely I need use both in the same time.
Than with in FM9 Program Map I build a compatible preset mapping with FX3, helped by today's gapless switching.

Doing so, is tricky for PITCH because there are obstacles everywhere:

• Impossible to load Pitch2 in FM9
• I can't rename it, before in FX3 or during the import
• to rename it manually, I can't easily copy/paste it nor I can't easily save/load it: everytime I have to remember to manually rebuild for it the 8 scene channels&bypass settings

and this is what I'm currently doing, with a lot of errors in the middle that drive me crazy

 

[Greg Ferguson]

• I can't rename it, before in FX3 or during the import

Don't try to rename.

If you want to keep the #2 block's contents and drop #1's contents, then select block #2, copy it, select #1 and paste the clipboard to the block. The channel information will overwrite the contents of #1 making it a duplicate, then delete #2.

If you want to keep both blocks but swap their channel information, then it's a tiny bit more work. Save the #2 instance of the block to the library with all channels, which retains the modifiers, select block #1 and copy then highlight #2 and paste, then select #1 and recall the block. Delete the copy in the library if you want. Which block you save first isn't important, either way we're making a temporary copy in the library.

Block types are remembered, but not their instance, so the library only knows about Pitch blocks or individual channels depending on how you saved. Recalling to a block in the grid overwrites that particular block's instance. It's just another form of copy/paste.

If you need both pitch blocks then you'll have to split the preset. Sometimes we can make a different block type imitate the sound we're after, but the Pitch block is unique.

 

[BobXX]

Don't try to rename.

If you want to keep the #2 block's contents and drop #1's contents, then highlight block #2, copy it, highlight #1 and paste the clipboard to the block. The channel information will overwrite the contents of #1 making it a duplicate, then delete #2.

That's what I intend with "manually rename" . But it doesn't copy the channel information !

My case is the simpler one, need to split FX3 preset in to two for FM9 with 1 PITCH each:

• one preset with PITCH1 only (super easy)
• one preset with PITCH2 only, but somehow renamed PITCH1

Example, this is the starting situation:

PITCH2 ....................................................................................... PITCH1

.........


Copy PITCH2: ............................................................................ Paste clipboard to PITCH1:

......

The result is that PITCH1 has now all settings copied from PITCH 2 with the exception of channels and bypass,
that remained unaffected:




This is not intuitive and not what a normal user expects IMO.

Hope I'm copying in the wrong way, maybe it needs CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-C instead

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Maybe I'm not understanding the problem. This is a short video showing how I do it.

Pitch 1 has channels A-D set to the first four pitch block types. Pitch 2 is set to the defaults. The video steps through both block's channels showing how they're set up, then I copied #1 and pasted it to #2, and then stepped through the channels for #2 showing they've changed to the same type as #1 in the corresponding channels.



The bypass state of a block and the selected channel are contained by the scene, not by individual channels. Copying the block information doesn't copy the scene settings. P. 9 in the FX3 manual talks about this.

 

[BobXX]

The bypass state of a block and the selected channel are contained by the scene, not by individual channels. Copying the block information doesn't copy the scene settings. P. 9 in the FX3 manual talks about this.

Thank you Greg for your time and patience...
This is the point. Probably I didn't explained correctly my #4 wish.

"The bypass states of a block and the selected channels" settings (of a block) are contained... in the scene. Also Unix-guy explained this point of view.

IMHO they should (also) be considered as "contained" in the block, especially when I copy/save it. This will make things easier.

In fact the practical effects aren't intuitive, IMHO copy/paste and save/load of an entire block should copy also those settings (as option at least).

If I create a new block copying it from another, it doesn't copy its scene bypass state and channels, it currently maintains the unrelated previous settings of that block maybe used 1 year ago... or starts from default. Not intuitive.

Suppose we have SCENE1 Clean - SCENE2 Rhythm - SCENE3 Lead:
if I copy an AMP, a DEL, a PEQ, a PITCH... the first thing I expect is to keep and paste their respective block's scene channels/bypass settings too,
not to be get from previous works, nor zeroed.
In my case they are 100% of cases, but everytime its required to patiently set block scene channels/bypass.

But even regardless all this:

the final fact is that "renaming" my beast PITCH2 in all my presets to split 80% of them for FM9, is in any case much much more tricky and risky than what it should.

 

[mr_fender]

Copy the block from Pitch 2 to Pitch 1 like Greg shows above, pull up the Scene Manager and compare Pitch 1 and Pitch 2 side by side and make them match for each scene. Delete the Pitch 2 block and save/export it for the FM9. Fairly straight forward.

Including bypass state and channel selection information in the copy would definitely have to be optional because in many cases, people would not want that copied over.

 

[BobXX]

Copy the block from Pitch 2 to Pitch 1 like Greg shows above, pull up the Scene Manager and compare Pitch 1 and Pitch 2 side by side and make them match for each scene. Delete the Pitch 2 block and save/export it for the FM9. Fairly straight forward.

Including bypass state and channel selection information in the copy would definitely have to be optional because in many cases, people would not want that copied over.

Yes, that's exactly what I did, hundreds of times..., and doing now, feeling a little stupid, with inevitable errors due to that "side by side" match.
There's a slow mouse click reaction time and frequently bypass cannot be modified in scene manager because "stopped" by the action of a modifier, so I should jump and double click the block itself, or open it and click bypass. It looks like an obstacles course.

I agree, bypass and channel selection information could be optionally included in the Copy and Save to library (full save), an user's choice.
But believe me, in 100% of cases, not 99%, 100%, I will use that option. Than eventually do changes.