Do you want a great sound for yourself or the audience?

MisterE

MisterE

Fractal Fanatic
I've been following a lot of discussions on the topic of FRFR and 4x12"' cabs.
My main concern has always been to get the best sound possible and transfer that to the FOH as good as possible.
A 4x12" cab may sound great behind you, 3d, moving air and all that.
But when it's miked and sent to the FOH, that's what the audience hears
If you want the audience to hear what you do coming out of the cabs, then you should stack up a bunch of 4x12"'s on either side of the stage and direct them so that everyone can hear the same thing.
If you have them behind you, the people who are standing right in front of them will hear it clearly, but since these cabs are very directional, those who are not in the direct line of the cab won't.
When you mike a cab, you'll only get the sound of one speaker and the microphone will colour the sound as well.
Now when you use the Axe-fx with a FRFR system, you have the best chance to hear exactly or as close to as what the audience is hearing.
In my humble opinion, this is how it should be.
And I truly feel the Axe-FX excels in this.
Granted, a FRFR-monitor won't give you the same feel as a 4x12" cab, but the thought the audience are hearing your sound is you want it tops that.
 
+3
In fact, I'll go so far as to say that my monitor mix usually does not sound that good (to me, at least) because we're using IEM's with no post-EQ'ing. It can be pretty harsh, but the whole purpose of IEM's in the first place is just to make sure I know exactly what I'm playing, not so I can admire my own tone. I trust that the mix I set on my monitors at home is what the audience is hearing (or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof), and don't sweat the whole "how does my guitar sound on stage" thing.
 
+6
I like to be that much involved in the sound creation process and have the control.
Big boxes on stage that are driven to sound good will always kill or at least affect the FOH sound as long as you don't play stadiums ... :lol: imho.

Micha
 
i agree on getting a great FOH tone

i like the idea of a 4x12 behind me but purely for look and foldback

i don't care how my tone sounds to me on stage, as long as it sounds good out front and i can hear 'what' i'm playing

I'm going to try running direct and use soundchecks to get my FOH crankin nicely
then i'll send the signal to a poweramp and 4x12 on stage just so i can hear what i'm playing...the 4x12 won't be super cranked or mic'd
 
I'd like to be a bit controversial.

85% of the audience don't care how a guitar sounds and 95% won't hear a difference between a line6/vetta rig and an Axe rig. For me it's important how I sound on stage as it has a big impact on how I feel and subsequently the quality of my playing. The Axe through a 4x12 is what does it for me.

I still wanna have the time and patience to go direct for FOH while still using the cab on stage, but so far I never bothered to optimise my patches for FR, but it's high up there on my to-do list.
 
hunter said:
I'd like to be a bit controversial.

85% of the audience don't care how a guitar sounds and 95% won't hear a difference between a line6/vetta rig and an Axe rig.
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I used to believe that till I started using a Vetta, and people stopped telling me how great I sounded.

I hope that the complements return with the Axe-FX, as it was always more satisfying to me to play out when people liked it enough to seek me out and tell me so.

Now when I play out it's, "that some good writing skills you've got there," which is great, but it's also code for, that guitar tone sounded like crap, if you had a good sound you could go somewhere with songs like that.

But I also live, and play in a place that has more musicians as fans than non-musician fans, and they are usually pretty interested in your gear if it rocks.
 
monkjunior said:
Why not both..........???
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It's not that simple.

I guess if you set up an Axe-FX through the PA that had the tone you want your audience to hear, and then a second Axe-FX set up through a 412 cab, and a poweramp behind you set up to give you the tone you want to hear out of that, then bingo.

But that's a bit extreme. :twisted: (...or is it?)
 
I dont think its extreme...... to be honest i have never had the need to run quads on stage.... just seem to like the 2x12 thing....
i guess lately been doing the in ears thing and for me that has where it has excelled.... i found when i first started using in ears what i was hearing from my miced up cab into my inears was really harsh sure the stage sunded good... but my thought was holy crap if i am hearing that direct into my ears then it sounds terrible...... then i made my patches so that i was running my Axe fx direct tone into my ears and the FOh and and using just the effects into my Amp for my stage sound ... i then had what i wanted ... a great IEm mix.... great Foh sound and a stage sound that if i pull my ears out i am happy with ....

my statement about both was part in jest but part not....... a very wise man once told me that if you only have 2 choices or options then you really dont have any at all.... i think with the axe its routing ability you could have both... and i am not into limited thinking deal ie in that i can only have a good stage sound or a good FOh sound but not both...(Not having a dig at anyone by the way, just saying.... :D ) but thats just me and whilst i might think my sound is good.... others may think its crap... and thats ok too....

a couple of things to note is that i am still getting as many gigs as i have ever got, so it cant be too bad.... i guess on the other thing is that i am still a hack and as much as i would like to think that it all matters i still hit more bad notes than good!!!! :shock:
 
I need my tone to be where I want it to be on stage or I lose my inspiration. Shallow... maybe but thats what I need. The other 95% of the people can here what they want with FOH as none of them are ever run the same no matter what you say to the sound man he is going to tweak it the way he likes it to sound even after you have gone through the hassle of tweaking it the way you like it. At least thats been my experience. A pair of 412's on stage is nice and it doesn't have to be the dominating sound ether. I always sound check the FOH first then blend my stage volume so it sits in the stage mix. Always works for me.
 
Sixstring said:
I need my tone to be where I want it to be on stage or I lose my inspiration. Shallow... maybe but thats what I need.
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Same here. Call it vanity or whatever, but I've always wanted my stage sound dialed in good to my ears. I EQ and set my levels to find my space in the mix - I don't dominate it. I've never had a soundman complain about my sound, and I leave it to him to take care of the FOH.
 
Call me selfish - Id rather have teh sound I like with the audience getting 90% than vica versa. Partly cos as stated an audience in general dont know good tone when they get it. Partly cos it makes me play better.

In teh last 4 years, ive only been mic'd twice anyway !!!. I know its not the best for everyone out front, but we dont play big enough places to warrant mic'ing.

Of course I can do it know at a sensible on stage volume (ie not getting the power vales working) BUt im just not used to the sound.

Ive tries FRFR, and it just sounds awfull to me. One day Ill sit down and create a patch or too I like in FRFR - THEN I may change my aproach.
 
To me its not even close. I need the guitar and the amp to have the right tone, dynamics, and feel
where I am standing, or I'm going to be frustrated and not going to play at my best.
 
Psst: You can have both. And you can do it FRFR with no other speaker cab on stage.

It is a different mindset. It's real. Honest.
 
I don't have to compromise. With my two QSCs in front of me, I have the best tone I have ever had and the interaction between the guitar and speaker is as good as it gets at minimal volume. Plugging direct into the PA gives me consistent tone that is on par with what I hear. I find that miking a cab can very the tone from night to night unless you are very meticulous and have the time and a wireless so that you can check the tone out in the house. My rig is dialed in each and every time. It eliminates the guess work.

I don't think there is much more I could ask for....except perhaps someone to schlep it for me.
 
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