Current state of music

Here's a fascinating (I think) interview by Rick. I never really thought about 1996 being a pivotal year but in retrospect, then sure. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 was pretty much the Wal-Mart of the music industry.


It’s nice to have everything you knew was happening but also considered conspiratorial confirmed. Maybe one day the lesson will be learned.
 
seems to me, to be a fairly predictable effect of an out in the open huge corporate amalgamation - not so much, imo, a lesson suggesting I should believe more in unfounded conspiracy theories.
So you’re saying you completely expected and understood this outcome when reading what this bill and policy was claimed to be in 1996? I doubt you even knew it existed. I don’t think you quite get my point. I’m saying it wasn’t “unfounded”! I’m certain I remember how this was touted as a great thing for the average person back then. Just like so much crap is today. Then again I find most of western culture is in a death grip with denial. Oh well as they say, ignorance is bliss.
 
I didn't follow it at the time, but given the policy change, ya, the result is what I'd expect: big organization + rationaliztion + more wealth in fewer hands. Bigger is not always better, but, maybe sometimes it is - try this, try that, hopefully learn along the way and not make messes that are too hard to unwind - that's all - just imperfect humans tryin stuff eh
That’s just it, the “powers that be” did know what they planned to do and lied about the intention. As always. My point is…never let the government consolidate power and centralize any level of control over your/our freedom. Furthermore, never let them collude in a public-private scam (we all know what this is called) to have the ultimate control over our lives. This isn’t imperfect humans “trying stuff”. (how quaint) This is the purposeful destruction of a system that was working. If anything it needed to have incentives to stay localized from a local level because it had already gotten too centralized and corrupt. This is the lesson to learn.

The father of a friend was part owner of like two or three radio stations and a TV station at the time. That was enough for him and his partner to handle. I remember him telling me why this bill was bad. The sad thing is this was done when his generation was getting close to retiring and it just sped up the process of him getting out before he lost anything he had gained. It wasn’t like he was getting super rich in the first place, but it was a decent middle class lifestyle.

I just read (and this is paraphrasing I may not have it exact) where they expect to have the first Trillionaire with in the next few years and since the Covid scam most billionaires increased their wealth by a 114% while 5 billion people had their wealth decrease. Weird how the policies of those that claim to have the little guys best interest in mind always end up doing the opposite of what they say.
 
That’s just it, the “powers that be” did know what they planned to do and lied about the intention. As always. My point is…never let the government consolidate power and centralize any level of control over your/our freedom. Furthermore, never let them collude in a public-private scam (we all know what this is called) to have the ultimate control over our lives. This isn’t imperfect humans “trying stuff”. (how quaint) This is the purposeful destruction of a system that was working. If anything it needed to have incentives to stay localized from a local level because it had already gotten too centralized and corrupt. This is the lesson to learn.

The father of a friend was part owner of like two or three radio stations and a TV station at the time. That was enough for him and his partner to handle. I remember him telling me why this bill was bad. The sad thing is this was done when his generation was getting close to retiring and it just sped up the process of him getting out before he lost anything he had gained. It wasn’t like he was getting super rich in the first place, but it was a decent middle class lifestyle.

I just read (and this is paraphrasing I may not have it exact) where they expect to have the first Trillionaire with in the next few years and since the Covid scam most billionaires increased their wealth by a 114% while 5 billion people had their wealth decrease. Weird how the policies of those that claim to have the little guys best interest in mind always end up doing the opposite of what they say.
I think we actually agree to a large extent, but lets disengage now so we don't get the OP's thread locked and miss out on others' thoughts on the vid.
 
Can look at it a few different ways. Now there are very few huge bands like back in the day. Nobody but the top 1% are making money on streaming, there is no tour support, etc, etc.... can go on. The mp3 killed the business model. IMHO YMMV.
 
Rick has had some "grumpy old man" posts in the past (maybe not so much lately) and I half expected that going into this video, but I gotta say he's pretty balanced and makes a ton of sense here. Take a listen to John Bonham's quantized drum track at about the 2:00 mark (eww!!!). There's some good stuff in here regarding producing music at a cheaper cost (why pay to produce a whole band when you can use a kid and a laptop?).

 
Rick has had some "grumpy old man" posts in the past (maybe not so much lately) and I half expected that going into this video, but I gotta say he's pretty balanced and makes a ton of sense here. Take a listen to John Bonham's quantized drum track at about the 2:00 mark (eww!!!). There's some good stuff in here regarding producing music at a cheaper cost (why pay to produce a whole band when you can use a kid and a laptop?).


Rick is definitely making sense here. While the focus is directed towards the value of today's music compared to when we were growing up is vitally important, Rick's view makes his point even more important.

Most of Rick's generation (late 50's onwards) did not have immediate access to streaming platforms until they became available in the late 90's. Yes, we worked for a living so we could own our own copies of an LP, and share our discoveries with our buddies we'd hang out with.

Perhaps that is Rick's lament. Now that streaming platforms make virtually all music libraries available for a flat monthly fee, the issue is about protecting the value of the music for artists who make it. Because AI will soon be able to recreate most any potential song with IR samples of a vocalist, the concern might be who owns the copyright of the recreated IR samples?

According to Rick, several major recording labels have already filed lawsuits with AI development companies regards the "rights to ownership" of AI recreated IR samples.

TBH, let me say that because of my ethical beliefs regards listening to music via streaming vs. music ownership, while some may question the cost-effectiveness of my choices, it's my ethics my hope is you'll agree. Although some streaming platforms charge a monthly fee, my ethics have always told me that something really isn't yours until you've worked for it and paid a modest fee for it.

While there are many who are younger and were born in the 90's, not all know of the value that went into creating a certain song or LP release, using the technology of the day to secure its place among many examples of musicians who also value the art of creating music.

Rick's point is truthful. Not all who utilize streaming platforms can appreciate the value of the music that they listen to, simply because it costs a flat fee to hear everything the entire context of music available down through history. Perhaps what this causes us to wonder is, the technology used to create music has given us amp modeling from IR sampling of real instruments.

What might Cliff do if he incorporated AI technology into the creation of yet to be discovered virtual amps and effects with defined algorithms and parameters? Or, if a separate device entirely helped end users create the amps/effects of their dreams into virtual devices individual builders might be able to profit from? Reason being, some create presets from FAS products and offer these for a modest fee. What might happen if a builder might recreate his favorite band's guitar or bass rig using AI-assisted tech?

If it's possible to see through the unintentional smokescreen, a builder might be able to use FAS as his sketchpad with AI-assist employed to help him think through the process. I already see the bones and connective tissues taking shape. Cliff, I'm handing the "wand" to you. Tell us if its going to be viable and healthy...
 
The suits will always find away to get their money out of the artist's work 1st.
That is the only thing that has not changed and never will.
I'm retired from playing live now but still play, jam, practice and record a little at home.
When I hear on You Tube how ridiculously low the salaries people are getting paid to perform as side men in places like Nashville , with large big name acts, It makes me sad.
Once upon a time In the 70s .lol
We usually worked 6 or 7 nights a week on a circuit of venues.
We made on average $200 to $300 per night each ,along with nice free hotel rooms and free meals, eating off the menu.
That was all in 1970s money as well. It would equal much more today.
We certainly were not famous.
We were only just traveling cover bands, playing the top songs on the radio charts.
We did not have the technology to play everything note for note.
We did the best renditions we could do.
The people danced,bought lots of booze and had a good time.
They never seemed to noticed what was missing from the music.
A funny aside:
One night, I had totally screwed up a popular song's lead break. One I had just learned that day.
A guy came up to me from the audience on our break, and said
"Man you really nailed that guitar break just like the record".
It was hard to keep a straight face ,but I thanked him .shook his hand and After he left, all of us almost choked we laughed so hard.
We worked hard partied hard and traveled a lot, through many Canadian winter storms and hot summers.
I loved it all !!!! I even miss it sometimes looking back.lol
I hold the greatest respect for those who can tough it out in today's market.
Many of us, in our day had no formal music education,while today many have the extra burden of expensive student loans ,to pay back , from four year music degree programs.
Over the years I became a better musician through self and peer learning of music theory and I enjoy learning to this day.
The real shame though is that, those circuits we performed on, and I'm sure they also existed in areas all around the USA , Canada and Europe, were the nursery ,where young musicians got their start, learned the their craft and the business.
These days there is no where for that natural talent to grow anymore.
The real gardens were the millions of hopeful garage bands with hopes of getting good enough to play at the school dances.
These were places where one could develop social skills and hone their instrument skills through hard work and peer pressure.
Teamwork friendships and chemistry were developed as well as trust and loyalty.
Bands grew organically and were not manufactured in most cases.
The best and or luckiest of them were on their way .
And they all lived happily ever after. lol Cheers !
 
What might Cliff do if he incorporated AI technology into the creation of yet to be discovered virtual amps and effects with defined algorithms and parameters? Or, if a separate device entirely helped end users create the amps/effects of their dreams into virtual devices individual builders might be able to profit from?
Very intriguing.
What might happen if a builder might recreate his favorite band's guitar or bass rig using AI-assisted tech?
I'd be all over it.
 
Drum machines and sequencer were around in popular music prior to anything being "ruined". In fact, I don't mind quantized Bohham one bit. That's not part of the reasons why "music is getting worse." He is right that a literal change in the market value of music is a factor. If you want to hear me talk more about this, however, it will need to be in person because this rabbit hole is not worth our time here.
 
Drum machines and sequencer were around in popular music prior to anything being "ruined". In fact, I don't mind quantized Bohham one bit. That's not part of the reasons why "music is getting worse." He is right that a literal change in the market value of music is a factor. If you want to hear me talk more about this, however, it will need to be in person because this rabbit hole is not worth our time here.
It's not about drum machines or sequencers. It goes deeper than that. I don't see this as a rabbit hole, on the contrary I find him to be insightful to how the biz has changed over the years. It's interesting to see the bigger picture of secondary and tertiary impacts of tech. Rick has knowledge and experience that most on this board probably don't.
 
Drum machines and sequencer were around in popular music prior to anything being "ruined". In fact, I don't mind quantized Bohham one bit. That's not part of the reasons why "music is getting worse." He is right that a literal change in the market value of music is a factor. If you want to hear me talk more about this, however, it will need to be in person because this rabbit hole is not worth our time here.
It is a wise man who says, "I'd happily share my thoughts with you, but I fear that you may not entirely be able to grasp their meaning just now."

Thanks. Perhaps someday when we all can join together (a wish, not a reality) for the release of Axe V and their sibling releases FM9 Mk V & FM3 Mk VI, AI will be advanced enough where we can interact with it. You need not spill any beans today.
 
The future comes whether you’re ready for it or not, and it brings change. That change doesn’t care who it hurts, and who benefits from it is dictated by who best adapts to it, and often who does it fastest.

I can easily imagine this entire thread of thoughts has been had many times over, albeit face to face, about machines doing what humans used to do by hand hundreds of years ago. It’s only more pertinent now because we’re the humans this time around
 
The current state of music sucks! It has no sole nor does it have any imagination and has been reduced to a Mama Dada mentality. I will be forever stuck in 7 8 9 music and I'm good with that!
 
The current state of music sucks! It has no soul nor does it have any imagination and has been reduced to a Mama Dada mentality. I will be forever stuck in 7 8 9 music and I'm good with that!
That's really the main gist of Rick's post. It's also greatly demonstrated by listening to Bonham's drums vs the quantized version. BTW, quantizing drums is not comparable to using a machine or sequencer b/c you can program in the groove or swing.

I didn't post this to be anti-tech; that's just ridiculous. This is more of interest as to how we got here and how one thing affects another. Seems like some commentators above misunderstand that.
 
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As one of those who: saved paper route money to buy vinyl / 8Tracks back in the day when those were the only options; was a member of Columbia House (1 cent for 10 albums!, then a bunch of small print I didn't read doh!🤣); and later, for decades, one who regularly budgeted from real job paychecks to buy CDs at $20 a pop (I have 500 or so in boxed storage); I'm in heaven these days with a music service that offers pretty much any music I'd ever care to listen to, all playable anywhere, anytime, on any device for $10/mth and without the need to have racks of dusty plastic cluttering the house. I'm able to dive deep into artist catalogues in a way I never could have before given the cost (tho I still mourn the loss of physical full size album artwork and sleeve photos). At the same time it seems sad that the $value of music for sale has sunk so low as to discourage artists / bands from making a living from it, or forces cost cutting via automations that affect musicality. Even tho I love the convenience and low cost of a subscription service, the mentality of wanting more "permanent" "ownership", and of placing a high value on music persists in me, to the extent that I still regularly buy digital copies of full albums on top of the regular service subscription fee even though in many cases the digital album I puchase is also part of the subscription (mostly collecting the iconic stuff from my past: recently finished assembling all the Black Sabbath thru to Mob Rules, Max Webster, Elton John, Eagles ... working on Rush, Gordon Lightfoot and a few others - preferably picking up the re-released special editions that include remastered and/or extra song versions not available in the subscription service, but also, often just the digital album in original form also avalable in the subscription - so that even if an unlikely financial difficulty forces me to ditch the service, I'll have what's important / valuable to me - younguns in my circle think I'm nuts since, astonishingly to me, "buying albums" is completely outside their life experience).
 
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...the mentality of wanting more "permanent" "ownership", and of placing a high value on music persists in me...
Going off-topic but that's okay b/c this is a really good point. I will still track down and buy physical copies of works I care about.

We're seeing more instances of the past being altered in this age where no one owns anything (thanks to streaming).

A few recent examples (there are many more):

1. The virtual movie poster for Full Metal Jacket had the phrase "Born to Kill" erased from the helmet. This was then restored after back lash.

2. Several movies have been virtually edited to erase potentially offensive phrases. Example: The French Connection saw the removal of Popeye Doyle's (Gene Hackman) use of the N-word.

3. Erasure of Queen's Fat Bottomed Girls occurring as I type this (this began a few months back).

Sorry for the tangent but I'm not sure people consider this much or some may not be aware.
 
That's really the main gist of Rick's post. It's also greatly demonstrated by listening to Bonham's drums vs the quantized version. BTW, quantizing drums is not comparable to using a machine or sequencer b/c you can program in the groove or swing.

I didn't post this to be anti-tech; that's just ridiculous. This is more of interest as to how we got here and how one thing affects another. Seems like some commentators above misunderstand that.
Oh no I got your post! and I'm a little more hard core with my thoughts on today's pop music in general and I agree with Ricks sentiments. I guess some of us that remember or engage music differently compared to today's generation, I don't really blame them, it's the people that are reducing it to its lowest form to make a fast buck.
 
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