Cleaning Up Higher Gain Amps

bread

bread

Power User
Hello

I'm currently using the Plexi 50W Hi and I really love the crunchy sound of it from the stock settings. I'd like to clean the amp up but I was wondering if there are any other parameters in the amp block that would also need changing apart from the obvious reduction in the gain control ?

As amps get pushed higher into distortion I'm sure there are a lot of variables that change as the gain is increased in the analog world but I was wondering if this also applies in the Axe FX. I assume it does so would be interested if anyone could point me in the right direction. I'm sure if there was a Plexi 50W Hi clean version of the amp available there would be many differences between the one we have now that is a crunch channel compared to its new clean version.

I've done this countless times, turned down the gain to clean the amp up but was never as happy as choosing a different clean amp and using that instead.

Also, are amps created from scratch on the latest version of the firmware a generally more authentic sounding amp than ones created with legacy firmware versions and then re-worked for the latest firmware version ?

Many thanks
 
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bread said:
Hello

I'm currently using the Plexi 50W Hi and I really love the crunchy sound of it from the stock settings. I'd like to clean the amp up but I was wondering if there are any other parameters in the amp block that would also need changing apart from the obvious reduction in the gain control ?

As amps get pushed higher into distortion I'm sure there are a lot of variables that change as the gain is increased in the analog world but I was wondering if this also applies in the Axe FX. I assume it does so would be interested if anyone could point me in the right direction. I'm sure if there was a Plexi 50W Hi clean version of the amp available there would be many differences between the one we have now that is a crunch channel compared to its new clean version.

I've done this countless times, turned down the gain to clean the amp up but was never as happy as choosing a different clean amp and using that instead.

Also, are amps created from scratch on the latest version of the firmware a generally more authentic sounding amp than ones created with legacy firmware versions and then re-worked for the latest firmware version ?

Many thanks
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The Gain enhancer if you push the plexi to just breaking up and then use the gain enhancer it will respond to volume roll off a bit better try it
 
bread said:
Yes, that works but I've never really done that live, I prefer a clean scene in the preset for that.
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There are many factory presets and by @2112 and @Burgs that use Marshalls for cleans. Search the factory presets page in the Wiki, and for posts or AxeChange for presets by them. Austin Buddy has some too.

The recommendation to use the guitar’s volume control is very valid. It’s how we’d use single channel amps to go from clean to dirty. Having a treble-bleed circuit is helpful too, but isn’t required, especially on a bright amp. I set up most of my presets with a clean scene, but also make sure my crunch and lead scenes sound good when I roll back the volume so I don’t have to be standing within reach of the FC. At jams I teach the young’uns how to work with the single channel and they have a look of panic at first, then they’re excited and happy at the end of their set because it’s old-school and just them, the guitar, and the amp making it happen. They enjoy it so much they always ask to use my rig. :)
 
bread said:
Hello

I'm currently using the Plexi 50W Hi and I really love the crunchy sound of it from the stock settings. I'd like to clean the amp up but I was wondering if there are any other parameters in the amp block that would also need changing apart from the obvious reduction in the gain control ?

As amps get pushed higher into distortion I'm sure there are a lot of variables that change as the gain is increased in the analog world but I was wondering if this also applies in the Axe FX. I assume it does so would be interested if anyone could point me in the right direction. I'm sure if there was a Plexi 50W Hi clean version of the amp available there would be many differences between the one we have now that is a crunch channel compared to its new clean version.

I've done this countless times, turned down the gain to clean the amp up but was never as happy as choosing a different clean amp and using that instead.

Also, are amps created from scratch on the latest version of the firmware a generally more authentic sounding amp than ones created with legacy firmware versions and then re-worked for the latest firmware version ?

Many thanks
Click to expand...
My go-to for cleaning up a distorted amp without reducing the gain is to lower the Input Trim. Try it at around 0.80, or turn it down lower if you need to.
 
Well you said "apart from the obvious reduction in the gain control", but most of these answers are just different places in the circuit to do exactly that, lower gain or input signal level.

If you're looking for other approaches (not that those are invalid), how about...

- Less bass in the front end, with the bass control, the input low cut filter, or an EQ block or appropriate drive block before the amp. You can boost some of it back up after the distortion, with the amp block post-amp EQ or depth control, cab block proximity, your IR choice, an EQ block, and probably other ways too.

- More negative feedback. Not less gain exactly, but tighter, maybe stiffer, notn ecessarily good or bad, but different.

- Less sag, if there is any.

- Variac at least 1.
 
Increasing the Gain enhancer compression knob in the dynamics section helps clean up more with the volume knob / playing dynamics, sort of simulates the feedback interaction that happens with a loud cab in the room with the guitar, which is lost when running a modeler direct. I rarely go past 2 on this parameter though.

Most of my presets have one control switch assigned to both the amp's gain parameter and the input trim. This way I can get one amp model from cleanish to screaming with one button press, without needing to take the gain all the way down to like 0.5 or whatever, where amps often don't sound as good IMO. Generally I do this with older NMV type amps rather than modern high gain stuff where I find it's better to just change amp models.
 
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Sometimes I like to do gain, volume, pre-EQ, and post-EQ, outside of the Amp block, mostly to keep things seamless. But it comes in handy if a client wants to use a 'global' Amp block in multiple per-song presets.

You can use the same identical Amp model, but with very different sounds in different presets and scenes.

Multiple channels of a Filter, PEQ, or GEQ block in front of the Amp block to reduce or add gain, and also shape the pre-EQ as desired, at no extra CPU cost. Some examples...
  • Channel 'A', reduce the Level to -16 to -20 dB, add some girth with a low-shelf filter set to +4 to +8, at around 300 Hz, Low cut at 75 Hz, High Cut if needed, etc..
  • Channel 'B', reduce the Level to -8 to -10 dB, add less (or no) low end? and less (or no) High Cut?
  • Channel 'C', Add around 12 to 18 dB, add a peaking filter boosting at around 600 to 800 Hz by 4 to 10 Db, Low Cut around 100 to 200 Hz, High cut around 3000 to 4000 Hz.
Multiple channels of a Filter or PEQ block after the Amp block as 'make up' volume, and also shape the post-EQ as desired, at no extra CPU cost.
 
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Try this preset - PEQ in front of Plexi70 amp block. PEQ has two different channels - one for single coils the other for humbuckers.
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External #4 goes from clean to mean to GR-RRR!
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Also has a bunch of other stuff going on with External #4 - on the chorus scene, it dries up the chorus for the mean and GR-RRR! ranges on the pedal. Delay comes in at the GR-RRR! range if the "Led Dly" switch is bright. A couple external switches do momentary things - delay boost/runaway, modulation accent, and rotary speed (two cover this - one momentary and one latching).
 
Moke said:
Sometimes I like to do gain, volume, pre-EQ, and post-EQ, outside of the Amp block, mostly to keep things seamless. But it comes in handy if a client wants to use a 'global' Amp block in multiple per-song presets.

You can use the same identical Amp model, but with very different sounds in different presets and scenes.

Multiple channels of a Filter, PEQ, or GEQ block in front of the Amp block to reduce or add gain, and also shape the pre-EQ as desired, at no extra CPU cost. Some examples...
  • Channel 'A', reduce the Level to -16 to -20 dB, add some girth with a low-shelf filter set to +4 to +8, at around 300 Hz, Low cut at 75 Hz, High Cut if needed, etc..
  • Channel 'B', reduce the Level to -8 to -10 dB, add less (or no) low end? and less (or no) High Cut?
  • Channel 'C', Add around 12 to 18 dB, add a peaking filter boosting at around 600 to 800 Hz by 4 to 10 Db, Low Cut around 100 to 200 Hz, High cut around 3000 to 4000 Hz.
Multiple channels of a Filter or PEQ block after the Amp block as 'make up' volume, and also shape the post-EQ as desired, at no extra CPU cost.
Click to expand...
You can take this all to a completely unhealthy (but awesome) level by attaching one Scene Controller to all of the 'Pre' parameters mentioned above. And a second Scene Controller to all of the 'post' parameters mentioned above. And 'Morph' all of this from one scene to another with some Attack and Release 'damping', without changing any channels.
 
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Or sometimes a switch of tone stack can have a noticeable clean-up effect. Some are sweeter or sharper than others.
 
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