Broken headstock

[Sixstring]

So if you had bought a Les Paul that has a painted back how could one tell if such a repair has been done? Reason I ask is I sold off my P-90 Paul and the buyer said that the serial numbers were hard to read (which they are) and is now worried that there had been a headstock break and repair.

When I bought the guitar I looked it over very thoroughly and I did notice that the serial numbers were hard to read but didn't notice anything else out of the ordinary in that area of the neck that would point to a break and repair. I was worried more about it being a fake but upon further inspection of the numbers though tough to read were in order so I never gave it another thought.

I did some searching on the web and did find that Gibson does have a history of hard to read serial numbers especially on painted necks. I also woodwork and know that it is possible to conceal a fix of that nature but it can also be very hard to do it in a manner that would be hard to not see it.

The Buyer said that he has some contacts at Gibson and wants to talk with them tomorrow to which I responded that would be fine I'm not trying to hide anything. I guess it has me wondering if that's the case and might be learning a hard lesson IDK.

 

[Churchhill]

I'm no expert here, but I might start with a blacklight to see if there were any indications of overspray anywhere on the neck, maybe even all the way down to the neck joint. It can be really difficult to see in pictures, I think the movement of the light helps with this.

Might also take a look inside the tuner holes closest to the nut. There usually isn't any finish inside those, so if a potential break ran through there, it'd be difficult to conceal in the exposed wood. Many headstock breaks I've seen hit at least one of the tuners.

FWIW, I've had a lot of Gibsons over the years. I'd guess about half had serial numbers that were hard to read, even when they were new. It seems worse when the back of the neck is dark or black.

 

[vika12]

Many if not most G LPs and the like wind up with broken head stocks -- weak design. That said, if the repair is done properly with splines, etc. the repaired head stock should be stronger than the original. Check out this master from Ontario. His videos are addictive.

 

[Rock Chalk]

Many if not most G LPs and the like wind up with broken head stocks

What an utterly ridiculous statement........the sky is falling...the sky is falling!.........

 

[vika12]

What an utterly ridiculous statement........the sky is falling...the sky is falling!.........View attachment 138720

Well, I guess I'm just a ridiculous kinda guy

 

[Sixstring]

I'm no expert here, but I might start with a blacklight to see if there were any indications of overspray anywhere on the neck, maybe even all the way down to the neck joint. It can be really difficult to see in pictures, I think the movement of the light helps with this.

Might also take a look inside the tuner holes closest to the nut. There usually isn't any finish inside those, so if a potential break ran through there, it'd be difficult to conceal in the exposed wood. Many headstock breaks I've seen hit at least one of the tuners.

FWIW, I've had a lot of Gibsons over the years. I'd guess about half had serial numbers that were hard to read, even when they were new. It seems worse when the back of the neck is dark or black.

Thanks for the info! If the buyer is interested in digging deeper that is if he is that worried about it he can look in that direction.

 

[Budda]

Blacklight. It will also show the serial. I had to do this with my 79 lpc i had briefly.

 

[skolacki]

Gibson just stamps the number and applies finish. On some it looks like they fill the stamp with contrast colors but if not they can be faint. If painted it seems like it would be hard to read by design. Besides the necks usually break at the neck to headstock angle not usually up top where the number is. Paranoid buyer. Hopefully he finds out it’s all good which it probably is. Feel bad for you on this. If you posted pics of the back of the headstock then it’s on the buyer imo.

 

[Budda]

Rereading the thread, sounds like the buyer is looking for an out to return or scam a refund for the guitar. They already bought it. Ask all those questions first.

 

[Sixstring]

Gibson just stamps the number and applies finish. On some it looks like they fill the stamp with contrast colors but if not they can be faint. If painted it seems like it would be hard to read by design. Besides the necks usually break at the neck to headstock angle not usually up top where the number is. Paranoid buyer. Hopefully he finds out it’s all good which it probably is. Feel bad for you on this. If you posted pics of the back of the headstock then it’s on the buyer imo.

I posted photos of the neck and headstock pretty much everything else! I'm hoping that the buyer is just being overly paranoid about it. We shall see tomorrow if it's going to go down that road though I really hope it doesn't I had to ship it to NY.

 

[Churchhill]

FWIW, I'm not seeing anything that is indicative of a break. Hope it all works out! Keep us posted, OK?

 

[Tonedeaf]

I've had two guitars that had repaired necks and had no problems. Both sellers claimed the repair joint was stronger and I never had a reason to doubt them.

 

[Budda]

I've had two guitars that had repaired necks and had no problems. Both sellers claimed the repair joint was stronger and I never had a reason to doubt them.

A properly repaired headstock break is indeed stronger, and a way cheaper guitar in most cases. I wouldnt be afraid of a properly repaired les paul at a good discount.

Curious to see how OP’s new headache moves forward.

 

[skolacki]

I posted photos of the neck and headstock pretty much everything else! I'm hoping that the buyer is just being overly paranoid about it. We shall see tomorrow if it's going to go down that road though I really hope it doesn't I had to ship it to NY.

Damn that’s a sweet looking guitar. Gibson definitely put a lot of paint on the headstock, pretty much filled the serial. Which the picture clearly shows. I don’t see this as your problem. If the number is making him paranoid then he shouldn’t have bought it. I doubt there’s a break and if there is a repair it was a good job. Some of them look pretty bad but harder to hide on clear finishes. I wouldn’t agree to a return unless the buyer is paying for shipping and can prove there is a break.

 

[Sixstring]

Damn that’s a sweet looking guitar. Gibson definitely put a lot of paint on the headstock, pretty much filled the serial. Which the picture clearly shows. I don’t see this as your problem. If the number is making him paranoid then he shouldn’t have bought it. I doubt there’s a break and if there is a repair it was a good job. Some of them look pretty bad but harder to hide on clear finishes. I wouldn’t agree to a return unless the buyer is paying for shipping and can prove there is a break.

Thats where I'm at with it! As soon as I hear something from him if it goes that direction that is what I'm going to offer.

 

[mistermikev]

"what one man can do... another can do". if the headstock was repaired well, there shouldn't be much for visual indications.

that said... if there was a gap anywhere... whatever was used to fill that gap is gonna shrink back at a dif rate than the wood... lets assume you would have already have seen that.

overspray - if you see that it is just as likely to indicate an innocent re-paint as any repair work.

You could look in the truss nut cavity for any signs... as that would be the most likely break point and also the place were there wouldn't be a lot of focus on touch up work.

I've heard that you can have a guitar x-rayed... can't imagine where you'd go for something like that.

all that said... the one thing I have learned about evilbay/reverb... if you've got an unhappy buyer... it does not pay to fight it. In fact the first words out my mouth would be: "listen, I want you to be happy, and if you aren't... if you are just having buyers remorse, and if you want to pay return shipping to me, I will refund you in full once I receive it." this sets the buyer at ease, prevents them from dreaming up reasons this item is "not as described" and might end up diffusing the situation to wear they can think clear and realize they want to keep the item. If they decide they don't want it... there is almost nothing you are going to do to stop a return... and further it may result in neg feedback. This is the risk of selling online. just one aholes o.

hope something there is useful and here's to the best possible outcome for all parties involved.

 

[Tonedeaf]

Rereading the thread, sounds like the buyer is looking for an out to return or scam a refund for the guitar. They already bought it. Ask all those questions first.

A properly repaired headstock break is indeed stronger, and a way cheaper guitar in most cases. I wouldnt be afraid of a properly repaired les paul at a good discount.

Curious to see how OP’s new headache moves forward.

I got great deals on both of them, one was an Electra Elvin Bishop Signature 335 (gorgeous guitar) for $300. Damn shame I found out I'm not a 335 guy.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Black light and a 40% discount no matter how well done. And yes this is a VERY common thing .

 

[Sixstring]

Update on this saga,

The buyer has decided to keep the guitar! His contact at Gibson did confirm that the painted guitars tend to have the finish pool up in the numbers. As to a headstock break he said that he was no longer worried about it, he had been burned before and was a little put off with the numbers being filled in he's happy and it's all good!

 

[Churchhill]

That's GREAT news!!