Before I return my FM3…

ImMana

ImMana

Member
I have used an AX8 for years and love it. But, recently purchased an FM3 because the tone is superior (IMO). However I am have a hard time adjusting and ready to return it. Before I do, hopefully someone can provide input:

1) I am in a cover band with a 200+ song catalog. It is super important I can switch any of my 25 or so presets within seconds. On the AX8 I can pull up a list of 8 presets at a time, quickly scroll through different banks of 8 presets, and then click the preset with the associated footswitch. For the life of me, I can’t figure out how to change preset nearly as fast with the FM3. Am I missing something?? I feel I am. How can I quickly get from one preset to another on the FM3? Scrolling from one to another takes way too much time. I want to pick from list on screen like the AX8.

2) The other problem is midi. I use a laptop with Show Buddy software to play tracks, run DMX lights, and trigger my AX8 to change presets automatically via midi over USB. But without midi over USB, the FM3 is very sensitive and inconsistent in switching presets using 5 pin midi cable. It just stops working. In all fairness, using 5 pin midi I had the same issue on the AX8 so it probable has to do with the laptop. But Problem solved with AX8 midi over usb. Hence my need for bullet 1 above if I run into issue live. Has anyone experienced similar midi inconsistencies?

I really hope I can find a way to keep the FM3 but I cannot risk it as is. Thanks
 
ImMana said:
1) I am in a cover band with a 200+ song catalog. It is super important I can switch any of my 25 or so presets within seconds. On the AX8 I can pull up a list of 8 presets at a time, quickly scroll through different banks of 8 presets, and then click the preset with the associated footswitch. For the life of me, I can’t figure out how to change preset nearly as fast with the FM3. Am I missing something?? I feel I am. How can I quickly get from one preset to another on the FM3? Scrolling from one to another takes way too much time. I want to pick from list on screen like the AX8.
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You might want to try adding an FC6 to the setup. You get six more switches and can move through switch layouts faster (IMO).
 
For #1, putting all your presets together will help. You can use Bank switches to get thru them quickly... But have you looked at the new Song and Setlist features added in FW 6.0?

For #2, you should probably investigate why the midi over DIN doesn't work. How are you getting midi out of the computer?
 
The FC-6 would absolutely help as well as reconfiguring your presets. I find the addition of two stand-in switches to be sufficient (much cheaper than an FC-6 and a smaller footprint). You can route two stand in switches (such as a Boss FS-5U) into one external pedal jack via a TRS cable with a Y-connector.
 
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Check out Bluetooth widi master, and an adaptor for the power issue w FM3 discussed on this thread - https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/midi-output-voltage-widi-master-is-getting-hot.171579/

Pair that with laptop or iPad app automatically triggering program change messages as part of playback, or manually choosing titles laid out in an alphabetical list if songs are being called in the moment. I use & love forScore on iOS for chart n lyric library and dig that upon opening any title in a setlist or organized in a host of ways it can send midi messages & FM3 will be in step.

I’ll second the recommendation of the FC6 as well if it’s practical for you to pick up. I hadn’t planned on getting one at first because I have an RJM PBC on my analog board that I figured could always be the bigger bank of super capable switches, but picked up an fc6 locally on Craigslist when it came up, and I love it. Especially for top40/ GB/ cover/ wedding band hits. Can use OMG9 super effectively for seeing and accessing a lot at once as you describe wanting, make great custom layouts for yourself as well with the additional number of switches, and at the very least whip up a great simple ‘pedalboard mode’ without even getting into additional views or press & hold functions for bypassing fx.

Even if you don’t want to spend any additional resources to get a lot of additional gear for your gear, there’s got to be some cool solutions hanging onto the more advanced unit!
 
Others mentioned using the FC6 with the FM3, however, you can just as easily add the FC12, and use the OMG15 layouts.

Defining your own layouts is not that hard, but doing it well takes some forethought and experience, so starting from something like that will give you a good beginning point.

Also, the Setlists and Songlists layouts are very useful. See https://www.fractalaudio.com/fc-download/ for the manual and layouts.
 
ImMana said:
2) The other problem is midi. I use a laptop with Show Buddy software to play tracks, run DMX lights, and trigger my AX8 to change presets automatically via midi over USB. But without midi over USB, the FM3 is very sensitive and inconsistent in switching presets using 5 pin midi cable. It just stops working. In all fairness, using 5 pin midi I had the same issue on the AX8 so it probable has to do with the laptop. But Problem solved with AX8 midi over usb. Hence my need for bullet 1 above if I run into issue live. Has anyone experienced similar midi inconsistencies?
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For 2) I can only say that I have been running fully automated shows AND rehearsals since I purchased my FM3 in 2020 and NEVER EVER had experienced a single MIDI command failed. Our setup sends MIDI from a Cymatic LP16 player into a MIDI splitter, then distributed to all devices. (I never use the switches personally -actually, my FM3 lives in the band's rack-).

unix-guy said:
For #2, you should probably investigate why the midi over DIN doesn't work. How are you getting midi out of the computer?
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As unix-guy said, I would start investigating whatever USB-MIDI interface you are using.

When I realized there was no MIDI-over-USB in the FM3, I thought that it was going to be a major drawback. Then, I remembered I had an old USB-MIDI interface buried with other gizmos in the bottom of a drawer. I plugged that into my computer and never looked back.
 
For number 2 it is a combination of things. Converting midi to usb from din to usb A/b can be unreliable, your interface, laptop, usb port. All of that play a role as well as the FM3 5pin din (which is glitchy) with midi. I currently run midi over usb with Ableton. But even with AF3 midi over usb it is glitchy (with tempo sync). So my guess the midi issue is part fm3 part your comp/AI.
 
The one question I don’t think no one has asked yet…….did you buy it new or used? If it’s used, did you upgrade the software to version 6? That could be an issue…..
 
I’ve recently stated using a USB to MIDI cable with my iPad, using an app called ‘songbook’ for all my songs, load a playlist, click a song and book the preset loads on the FM3!

Has been a game changer and makes gigs smoother.
 
unix-guy said:
For #1, putting all your presets together will help. You can use Bank switches to get thru them quickly... But have you looked at the new Song and Setlist features added in FW 6.0?

For #2, you should probably investigate why the midi over DIN doesn't work. How are you getting midi out of the computer?
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I will check out set list.

I am using an M Audio 1x1 USB Midi Interface straight from my laptop. The laptop has 2 additional USB ports being utilized, and I believe this is creating issues with the laptop sending Midi signals to the M Audio cable.
 
ImMana said:
I will check out set list.

I am using an M Audio 1x1 USB Midi Interface straight from my laptop. The laptop has 2 additional USB ports being utilized, and I believe this is creating issues with the laptop sending Midi signals to the M Audio cable.
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I just checked and my interface is a Roland UM-ONE. FWIW, I am now counting the number of USB devices I have simultaneously connected to my desktop and they're no less than seven (External HDDs, a MIDI keyboard, mouse+keyboard, MIDI interface, etc.). No problem whatsoever.

Can you further describe which specific problems are you experiencing? Occasional commands lost? From your original message it seems you eventually lose connection and no further commands are processed.
 
Midi to Bluetooth may help you.

I’m in the same boat, a lot of songs and needed to be accessed really quickly or setlist may change at the last minute.

I have an iPad with forscore, that let me create and modify setlist.
I used midi to Bluetooth with a Yamaha md bt01.
Each time I change the score on the iPad I can make it select automatically the preset.

I did that with the kemper stage.

I’m just bought an fm3 and yesterday I tried if that would work with fractal.

Works really great. For each song I can select the preset, the scene and even activate blocks.

I also bought a Airstep midi controller.
Didn’t have received it yet but seems to have à Lot of options and small footprint.
Gonna use it mainly to have access to the scenes.
 
Set list will help but it will be much easier with FC6 you could then just use the OMG9 layout
Where the FM3 shows
Presets scenes fx you could have it set where a hold on the preset switch loads the set list layout that will then show up on the FC6
 
Lohengrin said:
I just checked and my interface is a Roland UM-ONE. FWIW, I am now counting the number of USB devices I have simultaneously connected to my desktop and they're no less than seven (External HDDs, a MIDI keyboard, mouse+keyboard, MIDI interface, etc.). No problem whatsoever.

Can you further describe which specific problems are you experiencing? Occasional commands lost? From your original message it seems you eventually lose connection and no further commands are processed.
Lohengrin said:
I just checked and my interface is a Roland UM-ONE. FWIW, I am now counting the number of USB devices I have simultaneously connected to my desktop and they're no less than seven (External HDDs, a MIDI keyboard, mouse+keyboard, MIDI interface, etc.). No problem whatsoever.

Can you further describe which specific problems are you experiencing? Occasional commands lost? From your original message it seems you eventually lose connection and no further commands are processed.
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Appreciate everyone’s response! So I am running a Windows10 laptop with 3 USB ports. Those ports are occupied by 1) an ENTEC DMXIS device to control lights, 2) an MBox interface for audio track to house 3) fractal device for automated preset/scene changes (AX8 and now FM3). The issue I have only happens when I go midi to 5pin on fractal. What happens is inconsistent msgs to the fractal unit. Either there is no signal at all (no preset/scene change), or it will change the preset/scene once and not change again (very odd), or the changes work perfectly. No apparent rhyme or reason. Restart laptop might fix it, might not. Uninstalling/reinstalling usb drivers might fix, might not. Switching usb ports might fix, might not. I has been as painful to figure out as this response 😉. But, once I switch AX8 to midi over usb, problem went away. I’ve tried other us /midi cables and have the same problem.
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ImMana said:
Appreciate everyone’s response! So I am running a Windows10 laptop with 3 USB ports. Those ports are occupied by 1) an ENTEC DMXIS device to control lights, 2) an MBox interface for audio track to house 3) fractal device for automated preset/scene changes (AX8 and now FM3). The issue I have only happens when I go midi to 5pin on fractal. What happens is inconsistent msgs to the fractal unit. Either there is no signal at all (no preset/scene change), or it will change the preset/scene once and not change again (very odd), or the changes work perfectly. No apparent rhyme or reason. Restart laptop might fix it, might not. Uninstalling/reinstalling usb drivers might fix, might not. Switching usb ports might fix, might not. I has been as painful to figure out as this response 😉. But, once I switch AX8 to midi over usb, problem went away. I’ve tried other us /midi cables and have the same problem.
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Mmmmmm... Apparent lack of a reason makes me think that #1 suspect could be a faulty wire within your interface. Cliff himself used to say "99% of the time the problem is a cable or connector" (https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-iii-firmware-version-2-03.145132/page-9#post-1719264).

You could check the USB-MIDI interface with other receiving hardware and/or other sending computer, and your FM3 with another MIDI device sending commands.
 
As others have suggested, MIDI via Bluetooth is brilliant, and would probably be great for your use. Look at the options from CME : https://www.cme-pro.com/

They have very flexible systems that can handle complex routing. Super reliable too! I'm just a regular customer, not shilling for them. I happen to find their solutions ideal for my touring use.
 
ImMana said:
I am using an M Audio 1x1 USB Midi Interface straight from my laptop.
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I can't speak for that specific unit, but I've had two M-Audio MIDI Uno USB/MIDI interfaces and both were notorious for noise (i.e., random stuck notes). If M-Audio uses similar chips or tech in their various devices, I imagine that is a likely source of your MIDI glitches.

Be aware that Fractal appears to have neglected to put a current-limiting resistor on the FM3's MIDI out, so if you connect a device that uses the 5v (?) from that MIDI DIN socket, be aware that it might heat up and cause damage to either the connected device and/or the FM3 itself. That was the gist of the above linked WIDI thread.
 
stub said:
I can't speak for that specific unit, but I've had two M-Audio MIDI Uno USB/MIDI interfaces and both were notorious for noise (i.e., random stuck notes). If M-Audio uses similar chips or tech in their various devices, I imagine that is a likely source of your MIDI glitches.

Be aware that Fractal appears to have neglected to put a current-limiting resistor on the FM3's MIDI out, so if you connect a device that uses the 5v (?) from that MIDI DIN socket, be aware that it might heat up and cause damage to either the connected device and/or the FM3 itself. That was the gist of the above linked WIDI thread.
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So I purchased a new USB to Midi cable (not M-Audio) and... it appears the problem is solved!!!! This has been years of midi switching issues starting with my AX8. Wow! Thanks for all the responses- I learned some good tips about the FM3.
 
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