AxeFx with Dual Rectifier amp, help?

G

gtrdave

Member
Hey guys I need help. I am playing an outdoor gig next month and really want to use my Mesa Boogie Dual Rec. To be honest my amp and rack gear has been sitting collecting dust for almost 8 months since I got the AFX (I've been running FRFR this whole time with indoor gigs). I'm totally satisfied with the Axe and all the tones I'm getting out of it. I thought it was going to be easy to just eliminate the Cabinet sim and Amp sim in the Axe and use the Axe Effects through the Mesa effects return but I am getting a muffled tone with the Mesa Effects Loop engaged while running the Axe. This happens even when all Axe blocks are dissabled so it is not really an effect in the Axe that is doing this. I'm running the effects loop 100% in and 100% wet output in the effects loop. I have to crank the output on the Axe 100% and there is still a drop in volume when the effects loop is engaged and it has a muffled tone. The other rack gear I had before the Axe worked great because there wasn't a volume drop when I turned on the effects loop. So long story short I want to play really loud at this outdoor gig and not worry about being fed through a PA. (The PA might not be that great at this gig). I really want to keep it simple for tones and didn't want to mess with trying to use the Axe Fx as a preamp if I don't have to. I did try to hook up the Axe into the Amp Return and I get super close in tone and could make the tones exact with time, but I would love to use the amp instead at this gig and not worry about dialing in the Axe. Is there a better way of doing this or should I start making preamp settings in the Axe for the Amp Return? Am I missing something here? Any body else had this problem before? Is there a better way to do this?

Note*** Edited** The problem was the Axe Global I/O was set to Front Input instead of Rear Input. The dark tone problem is fixed when you switch this in the Global I/O Menu. I knew I had read this before somewhere....Woops! Back to the Wiki.....
 
I gather from that post that you are frustrated, but don't really see the entire picture.

You say you want simple, you want to play freaking loud at the show and don't want to mess with the Axe-FX or going straight to FOH. Is that a correct read?

Well, then use your amp and leave the Axe-FX at home. Nothing wrong with that. If you must have effects and need to use the Axe-FX, then you have to use the loop on the amp you are using or you have to not use the amp.
 
Yes you read that right. Frustrated and just want to go loud with the amp for a change. Yeah I've been rehearsing with the drummer with just the Amp no effects and I think it sounds killer, but I'd like to add chorus and delay here and there if possible. I may go back and plug the Roland RSP-550 and the TC-1210 in again (while I still have them) and put those through the effects loop for the chorus and delay. Then I can have effects switch in and out without a drop of volume with the effects loop. It is too bad 'cuz I think the Axe has better effects. I also have a Carvin head and 2x12 cab. and could go stereo with the Axe. :p That could be interesting. Funny I haven't tried any of these set ups with the Axe so it would be all new to me. Gotta learn a bunch of songs for this outdoor party and don't want to take a huge amount of time dialing in amp tones for this particular gig. Maybe I should look on Axexchange for some stereo amp settings for the Axe. The Axe is huge for great sounding effects. Was just hoping to add some AxeFx to the amp. BTW Scott thank you so much for all your insight and patches you've shared. I use your AC30 all the time and especially love the Multi-tap delay setting. ;) Thanks bro
 
A Rectifier's loop is very problematic and hard to get clean sounding. It's parallel and will never mix 100% wet. The only thing you can do is set ALL effects 100% wet in the axefx (it's a must, if you don't, you'll get strange phasering sounds), then adjust with the mix knob behind the dual rectifier. Levels are key too, so you're gonna spend some time adjusting everything in BOTH the axefx and the mesa.
 
Ok I will try that today thanks. Something that might be making the difference too is that I haven't change the I/O input to the rear Input. If that is the volume problem I feel like an idiot. LOL! Forgot about that one. Gonna go to the practice room and try that too.
 
You can increase the volume of your amp block by quite a few dB when you turn cab sim off. I had the opposite recently coming from a guitar cab/amp rig to do FRFR, I had to decrease the volume of my patches quite a lot to not clip with cab sims off.

So turn cab sims off and volume of the amp block up until it clips, maybe that improves the sound through the Recto power stage.
 
I am getting that weird phasering sound running the Axe as just a deticated effects unit through the Rectifier effects loop. I had the Axe Output volume knob all the way up and I would usually run the Mesa Effects loop at 100% send and about 85% Mix (wet/dry mix on the Mesa) and that would work with my other rack gear. I made all the effects in the Axe set to 100% mix as suggested but there was that weird phasering sound (just running delay and reverb at this point). So I carefully adjusted the mix (wet/dry of the Mesa) until the phasering would go away. The Axe sounds good like that but I needed to add a Null Filter boost at about 8-10db to make it so the volume was the same whether I had the effects loop on the Mesa engaged or not. Another problem is that with the mix turned down I am not getting enough effect volume (wet signal) to do any modulated effects (chorus, phaser, tremello, panner) even when the mix on those effects in the Axe is set to 100%. So I tried to turn the Mix down to like 60% on the Delay and Reverb and turn up the wet/dry knob on the Mesa. Better but it gets kind of weird.

I finally gave up on running the Axe this way and started matching the pre-amp in the Axe to the Rectifier Pre-Amp (running into just the Amp Return). After a few hours I have nailed the Orange channel set to "vintage". Would like to nail the Red channel and want to try that next. That is where I'm at now and I figure I'll want to run stereo effects to the FOH and love the idea of doing both. I have been running FRFR ever since I've got the Axe mostly for volume reasons. I live with my two daughters and wife who all have sensitive ears. When I get yelled at for the too loud thing I remind them of the Mesa Boogie sitting in the corner I could fire up. LOL! I get yelled at a lot less with the FRFR and headphones than my half stack. That's for sure. LOL! Now that I have a band practice room it's been great to fire up the half stack again. I can't believe how good the Axe sounds through the amp. I was supposed to sell the half stack after getting the Axe (head phones was also a big selling point) but now that I've heard the Axe through it it won't be going anywhere unless a Verve Ma or the Atomic can sound like that. I'm sold again on the endless features of the Axe.... I now just need to dial in a bunch of new patches.
 
gtrdave said:
I am getting that weird phasering sound running the Axe as just a deticated effects unit through the Rectifier effects loop. I had the Axe Output volume knob all the way up and I would usually run the Mesa Effects loop at 100% send and about 85% Mix (wet/dry mix on the Mesa) and that would work with my other rack gear. I made all the effects in the Axe set to 100% mix as suggested but there was that weird phasering sound (just running delay and reverb at this point). So I carefully adjusted the mix (wet/dry of the Mesa) until the phasering would go away. The Axe sounds good like that but I needed to add a Null Filter boost at about 8-10db to make it so the volume was the same whether I had the effects loop on the Mesa engaged or not. Another problem is that with the mix turned down I am not getting enough effect volume (wet signal) to do any modulated effects (chorus, phaser, tremello, panner) even when the mix on those effects in the Axe is set to 100%. So I tried to turn the Mix down to like 60% on the Delay and Reverb and turn up the wet/dry knob on the Mesa. Better but it gets kind of weird.

I finally gave up on running the Axe this way and started matching the pre-amp in the Axe to the Rectifier Pre-Amp (running into just the Amp Return). After a few hours I have nailed the Orange channel set to "vintage". Would like to nail the Red channel and want to try that next. That is where I'm at now and I figure I'll want to run stereo effects to the FOH and love the idea of doing both. I have been running FRFR ever since I've got the Axe mostly for volume reasons. I live with my two daughters and wife who all have sensitive ears. When I get yelled at for the too loud thing I remind them of the Mesa Boogie sitting in the corner I could fire up. LOL! I get yelled at a lot less with the FRFR and headphones than my half stack. That's for sure. LOL! Now that I have a band practice room it's been great to fire up the half stack again. I can't believe how good the Axe sounds through the amp. I was supposed to sell the half stack after getting the Axe (head phones was also a big selling point) but now that I've heard the Axe through it it won't be going anywhere unless a Verve Ma or the Atomic can sound like that. I'm sold again on the endless features of the Axe.... I now just need to dial in a bunch of new patches.
Click to expand...

The phasing is from the Axe not being 100% wet. The direct signal that's passing the Axe in your parallel loop has a micro delay before it hits the return, so it acts like a phaser.

Either you run it in serial loop of the Mesa, then you adjust effect level in the Axe, OR you run it in parallel loop of the Mesa, then FX level in the Axe should be 100%, you adjust FX intensity with the Mesa mix pot.
 
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