Analog amp simulator in DSP signal chain: sound quality loss issue

rushproject

rushproject

New Member
Hello everyone,

Recently I got hold of Ethos CFD, which is a two analog amp simulators packed in a single box, along with many very usable bells and whistles. The hype is definitely real. The tone it produces, even straight out of the box, is remarkable.

However, what really fascinates me is the distinct tonal difference between digital modelers and analog pedals. I own both the CFD and the Simplifier DLX, my first forays into analog pedals. While I haven't personally used the amps these pedals emulate, I find that both analog and DSP simulators adeptly produce iconic tones. The striking difference I've noticed is the liveliness inherent in the analog simulations. Hard to describe that difference. Think of switching between decent audio system and high end audiophile setup. Also with analog signal chain I invariably get the amp in the room, because it just what it is. It does not happen to the same extent when I bypass the cab block in FM9 and send output to the same real cab I use in my analog chain.

Initially, I thought this vibrant sound was unique to the Simplifier. However, discovering the same characteristic in the CFD has piqued my curiosity.

As a software engineer with fair amount of DSP experience, I hypothesized that the amp might be the limiting factor in digital signal processing models, due to their complex non-linear components. To test this, I introduced the pedal into my FM9 setup as an effect loop, parallel to the amp block, and conducted an A/B comparison.

Interestingly, both analog pedals seemed to lose their "live sound" quality when integrated into the DSP chain.

This leaves me in a conundrum. I appreciate the convenience of my FM9, but the analog pedal amp tone is undeniably superior to my ears. My initial plan was to blend the pedal with the DSP signal chain to harness the strengths of both systems. Unfortunately, this hasn't worked as expected.

Has anyone successfully integrated analog amp simulators into a DSP signal chain while preserving the tonal characteristics? I'm eager to hear your experiences or any advice you might have.

Thanks in advance for your insights!
 
Apparently the issue was quite simple, no mumbo jumbo of DSP realm, just stereo to mono conversion. The analog pedal in standalone mode was in native mono signal chain, when injected into FM9 FX loop it becomes a part of stereo circuit. Even without any stereo effects the L+R is not equal to L->R. That's somewhat counterintuitive to me, as I assumed identical signals in L and R, and simple averaging for stereo to mono conversion.

Anyway, after switching the FM9 to mono and also configuring each block to intake only left channel I can easily match at least clean channels of both analog pedal to their modeled counterparts. Case closed, I guess.
 
I'm curious as to how this kind of setup can work with the FX8.

Agreed that the Ethos CFD is an amazing pedal. Also a big fan of the D&H MKII (with an X on the way soon).
 
My favorite marketing buzzword for the Simplifier is “analog,” which in this case actually means “solid state,” i.e. basically a transistor drive pedal with a simple EQ filter as a cab sim. But anyone playing it because it’s “analog” wouldn’t be caught dead playing a solid state amp. Decent clean tones but the transistor overdrive sounds are almost laughable, not even close to Fractal’s modeling, and an analog EQ doesn’t compare to the flexibility/accuracy of IRs.
 
strabes said:
My favorite marketing buzzword for the Simplifier is “analog,” which in this case actually means “solid state,” i.e. basically a transistor drive pedal with a simple EQ filter as a cab sim. But anyone playing it because it’s “analog” wouldn’t be caught dead playing a solid state amp. Decent clean tones but the transistor overdrive sounds are almost laughable, not even close to Fractal’s modeling, and an analog EQ doesn’t compare to the flexibility/accuracy of IRs.
Click to expand...

Indeed… Otherwise, there wouldn’t be a hunt for great vacuum tubes and big iron transformers… Not to even mention resistors and capacitors types
 
strabes said:
My favorite marketing buzzword for the Simplifier is “analog,” which in this case actually means “solid state,” i.e. basically a transistor drive pedal with a simple EQ filter as a cab sim. But anyone playing it because it’s “analog” wouldn’t be caught dead playing a solid state amp. Decent clean tones but the transistor overdrive sounds are almost laughable, not even close to Fractal’s modeling, and an analog EQ doesn’t compare to the flexibility/accuracy of IRs.
Click to expand...
That was not my experience with the MKII. But, I mainly use it as a clean/edge of breakup platform. And no, I'm not opposed to a decent sounding solid state amp. They've improved over the years. Have you ever played the Ethos Clean Fusion Deluxe? It's excellent, and has it's own nice thing going on. I actually prefer it to the Ethos Overdrive. Tube amps are awesome, of course. Modeling is pretty freaking amazing. And there are other good solutions, too. I've tried nearly everything now, over the years.
 
Can any Fractal do this? Yes, of course! But, this is why I like the MKII (I wound up not gelling with the DLX).
Mine arrives Monday, finally. I'm really curious to try and Hotrod USA (Mesa-ish).

 
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