About Amp Loudness and Amp Block Output Levels

[ertan]

For a while, I unintentionally keep the output levels of amp block channels with different amps equal, and set the MV accordingly, which I usually set low.

I wonder if loudness level differences of amps refer to the real world, in other words, let's say if two different amp blocks sound equally loud while connected to the same cab, with the same settings, is this valid in the real world?

Why I'm asking is that I just wondered, because this approach gives me nice presets with stable amp channels with totally different amps (e.g. one with EL34 and a lower powered one with EL84's).

By stable, I mean that there seems to be no abrupt frequency specific volume changes when switching between different amps with this approach.

 

[chris]

Master volume sets the amount of power amp distortion.

Amp level is meant to be used to change the amp level due to various gain and distortion from amp settings. One amp could be -15 dB and another +4 dB if needed and this is intended.

 

[ertan]

Master volume sets the amount of power amp distortion.

Amp level is meant to be used to change the amp level due to various gain and distortion from amp settings. One amp could be -15 dB and another +4 dB if needed and this is intended.

Thanks for the answer. What I wonder about is that if I recreate my preset with their components' analogue counterparts (two amps into one cab in different channels), will I also get the same volume levels with that gear?

 

[chris]

Thanks for the answer. What I wonder about is that if I recreate my preset with their components' analogue counterparts (two amps into one cab in different channels), will I also get the same volume levels with that gear?

people complained for years that volumes among amps in the Axe were too wildly different. this is because they matched and produced the volume the real amp would generally speaking.

to my knowledge it has been adjusted here and there so amp models have similar volume ranges.

this does not affect the tone, just the resulting volume.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Thanks for the answer. What I wonder about is that if I recreate my preset with their components' analogue counterparts (two amps into one cab in different channels), will I also get the same volume levels with that gear?

It’s unlikely, Fractal doesn’t guarantee that the knob positions match the analog amp, instead the model matches the underlying circuit and schematic of the particular amp they tested against. The volume you hear is related to the actual output device driving the speakers, and the modeler’s OUT knobs control how much signal is sent to the device, and the Out block and all other blocks have Level controls that affect that signal.

In addition, the knobs on your analog amp and the pots they’re attached to can be different tapers or different values or ranges of values than the particular instance of the modeled amp because of changes in the production line, availability of the parts, or circuit revisions are different, requiring the knobs to be be set differently just to have the same effect.

The best thing to do is to set the output level of the individual scenes to sit around 0 dB, then adjust the OUT knob to what level you need.

 

[strabes]

if I recreate my preset with their components' analogue counterparts (two amps into one cab in different channels), will I also get the same volume levels with that gear?

On most amps the master volume control dramatically affects the tone of the amp (not just the volume), so your best bet is to adjust the amp master volume to where the amp sounds best and compensate with the amp block output parameter to get the actual volume you want. Think of it like how you'd do it in the studio: you'd set the amp in the live room how it sounds best (amp block master volume parameter) and adjust the volume you hear in the control room with the mic pre gain and console fader (amp block level parameter). In the live room one amp might be dramatically louder than the other but you compensate for that with mic pre gain and the fader so they're both metering at useable levels.

 

[reclavea]

Another factor too if I recall is that depending on which amp model is being used the master affects the tone at pre-power amp breakup. Depending on its setting it could raise or lower the overall volume as well so the amp level is used to compensate & sets the final output vol in the block.