4 Cblm on stage rig and FOH in Stereo, is this Right?

Cdan1296

Cdan1296

Member
Is this the best and only way for me to use 4 cblm for my onstage rig
(which is mono) Then use Output 1 to go to my FOH PA system in Stereo?
Am I doing this correct? I hate using a mic in front of my cab. It never sounds like my rig.
With what I did here it allowed me to use Stereo effects and a EQ to make my FOH sound alot like my amp.
I am just not sure if its the best method to achieve this.AXE 4cbl and FOH.GIF
 
This is exactly what I have been trying to accomplish (with limited success).

Is your OUT4 going straight into a cab powered by your tube amp?
 
Cdan1296 said:
Is this the best and only way for me to use 4 cblm for my onstage rig
(which is mono) Then use Output 1 to go to my FOH PA system in Stereo?
Am I doing this correct? I hate using a mic in front of my cab. It never sounds like my rig.
With what I did here it allowed me to use Stereo effects and a EQ to make my FOH sound alot like my amp.
I am just not sure if its the best method to achieve this.View attachment 119135
Click to expand...
Hard to comment without info on what 3/4 in/outs are cabled to what.
 
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Input 1 Is the Guitar into the AXE FXiii
Output 3 goes to input of the Two Rock Head.
Send from amp goes into Input 4 of AXE FXiii
Return from amp goes into Output 4 of AXE FXiii

Then what i did was, set up my full FOH. Go out of AXE FXiii Output 1 L&R (Two XLR's)
into my Allen & Heath Qpack Mixer. Into my RCF mains. I used the Dr. Z Air Brake Attenuator to
keep Amplifier Volume way Down. So I could really just hear the FOH MAins. Then, If you look at the chain
which branches off Input 4 Block to Output 1 Block. On that chain I maually tweaked an EQ Block, Filter Block, Cab Block,
and a few other effects, to get the best sound to my mains in comparison to my Amp. It was time consuming and yes I did it
at gig volume. My house was shaking. LOL And of course did this during the hours the wife wasn't home!
I've done 3 recent gigs and I am besides myself as is the band how good the sound is from my amp combined with Stereo FOH.
BUT IS IT RIGHT??? LOL
 

Attachments

  • AXE 4cbl and FOH.GIF
    AXE 4cbl and FOH.GIF
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Ventanaman said:
This is exactly what I have been trying to accomplish (with limited success).

Is your OUT4 going straight into a cab powered by your tube amp?
Click to expand...
Input 1 Is the Guitar into the AXE FXiii
Output 3 goes to input of the Two Rock Head.
Send from amp goes into Input 4 of AXE FXiii
Return from amp goes into Output 4 of AXE FXiii

Also look at the screen shot to see how i did it. BUT while I am happy and it sounds great I'm trying to find out if this
is the best way. Thanks, Chris
 
There's no single best way imo, but one thing I see maybe worth noting, is that output1 to your mains will not contain a Two Rock power section tonal component. The difference that makes will depend on the color of your Two Rock's power section and how hard you are pushing it with Axfx output 3. In my presets with similar configs, what I'd do to mitigate that if desired, is to put an amp block just before the cab in the branch off from input4. The amp block would be a tube pre model set to stock (which is pretty flat and transparent on the pre side but I do a few tweaks to make the pre even more so), and with the Tube Pre model's power amp advanced parameters set to match the Axfx Two Rock model. So what you end up with is a makeshift Two Rock power section emulation added to your mains to approximate the real power section of your Two Rock not represented in your mains. One key aspect this enables (in addition to p.a. character), is use of an IC curve in the amp block to match / work with your cab IR. The amp block will also offer added compression and EQ options for output1.
 
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sprint said:
There's no single best way imo, but one thing I see maybe worth noting, is that output1 to your mains will not contain a Two Rock power section tonal component. The difference that makes will depend on the color of your Two Rock's power section and how hard you are pushing it with Axfx output 3. In my presets with similar configs, what I'd do to mitigate that if desired, is to put an amp block just before the cab in the branch off from input4. The amp block would be a tube pre model set to stock (which is pretty flat and transparent on the pre side but I do a few tweaks to make the pre even more so), and with the Tube Pre model's power amp advanced parameters set to match the Axfx Two Rock model. So what you end up with is a makeshift Two Rock power section emulation added to your mains to approximate the real power section of your Two Rock not represented in your mains. One key aspect this enables (in addition to p.a. character), is use of an IC curve in the amp block to match / work with your cab IR. The amp block will also offer added compression and EQ options for output1.
Click to expand...
Thank-you so much for this info. I am getting my Two Rock tone to the mains however. Because output 3 goes to my Two rock Input. Atleast it seems that way. I keep the tone stacks at 12 dead center on the Two Rock. I do this cause I also use normally Two guitars at a gig. Each guitar has its own Presets with different Eqs, Comps, OD effects. etc. Its funny I previously put a Senn. 609 Mic in front of my Mesa Cab. And as I listened to the tone coming from the mains I was like, man, my amp doesnt sound like this shit! Oh I tweaked the EQs in the Allen and Heath mixer to make it better. I recently did a side by side comparison using AXE and Two Rock (how I have it now) and then using just a mic on the cab. Wow! what a stark difference. The AXE FXiii using 4 cblm and going to FOH was simply mind blowing in tone. I am just ina cover band. We work steady. I am the only guitar player and lead singer. Having a 4 piece band Guitar Bass Keys and drums, the vocals and over all sound of the band hitting the audience is the key. But to your point, If I make volume changes and or Tone stack on the Two Rock you hear it in the mains. The way I have it now. Unless I am nuts! LOL The Tone Stack is flat. The Two Rock Bloomfield also has voicings EQ1 and EQ2 it has Mid Boost and deep boost. If I hit those switches you hear the change in FOH. But I will LOOK into your advise for sure! Thank-you so much. This is what I need to hear. Chris
 
Cdan1296 said:
Thank-you so much for this info. I am getting my Two Rock tone to the mains however. Because output 3 goes to my Two rock Input. Atleast it seems that way. I keep the tone stacks at 12 dead center on the Two Rock. I do this cause I also use normally Two guitars at a gig. Each guitar has its own Presets with different Eqs, Comps, OD effects. etc. It’s funny I previously put a Senn. 609 Mic in front of my Mesa Cab. And as I listened to the tone coming from the mains I was like, man, my amp doesnt sound like this shit! Oh I tweaked the EQs in the Allen and Heath mixer to make it better. I recently did a side by side comparison using AXE and Two Rock (how I have it now) and then using just a mic on the cab. Wow! what a stark difference. The AXE FXiii using 4 cblm and going to FOH was simply mind blowing in tone. I am just ina cover band. We work steady. I am the only guitar player and lead singer. Having a 4 piece band Guitar Bass Keys and drums, the vocals and over all sound of the band hitting the audience is the key. But to your point, If I make volume changes and or Tone stack on the Two Rock you hear it in the mains. The way I have it now. Unless I am nuts! LOL The Tone Stack is flat. The Two Rock Bloomfield also has voicings EQ1 and EQ2 it has Mid Boost and deep boost. If I hit those switches you hear the change in FOH. But I will LOOK into your advise for sure! Thank-you so much. This is what I need to hear. Chris
Click to expand...
I had a 609 and hated it. I think someone took it on me and I dont care.
 
Cdan1296 said:
Thank-you so much for this info. I am getting my Two Rock tone to the mains however. Because output 3 goes to my Two rock Input. Atleast it seems that way. I keep the tone stacks at 12 dead center on the Two Rock. I do this cause I also use normally Two guitars at a gig. Each guitar has its own Presets with different Eqs, Comps, OD effects. etc. Its funny I previously put a Senn. 609 Mic in front of my Mesa Cab. And as I listened to the tone coming from the mains I was like, man, my amp doesnt sound like this shit! Oh I tweaked the EQs in the Allen and Heath mixer to make it better. I recently did a side by side comparison using AXE and Two Rock (how I have it now) and then using just a mic on the cab. Wow! what a stark difference. The AXE FXiii using 4 cblm and going to FOH was simply mind blowing in tone. I am just ina cover band. We work steady. I am the only guitar player and lead singer. Having a 4 piece band Guitar Bass Keys and drums, the vocals and over all sound of the band hitting the audience is the key. But to your point, If I make volume changes and or Tone stack on the Two Rock you hear it in the mains. The way I have it now. Unless I am nuts! LOL The Tone Stack is flat. The Two Rock Bloomfield also has voicings EQ1 and EQ2 it has Mid Boost and deep boost. If I hit those switches you hear the change in FOH. But I will LOOK into your advise for sure! Thank-you so much. This is what I need to hear. Chris
Click to expand...
You are getting your preamp, but not your power amp, it would appear. He is suggesting a way to get some power amp simulation in your FOH send.
 
Thanks for the details. Hypothetically, if the amp had a line out (that included the power amp section), could that be run on a different row with the fractal cab sim?
 
Ventanaman said:
Thanks for the details. Hypothetically, if the amp had a line out (that included the power amp section), could that be run on a different row with the fractal cab sim?
Click to expand...
Yes - I do that with my H+K with built in attenuator that has line out. 6CM:
  • (1) Guitar > AxfxIn1.
  • > "Pre" positioned Axfx fx.
  • (2) AxfxOut3 > ExtAmpIn.
  • > ExtAmpPre.
  • (3) ExtAmpSend > AxfxIn3.
  • > "Fxloop" positioned Axfx fx.
  • (4) AxfxOut4 > ExtAmpRetn.
  • > Ext p.a. > ExtAttn.
  • (5) ExtAttn LineOut > AxfxIn4.
  • > "Post" positioned Axfx fx.
  • (6) AxfxOut1 > Monitoring Mains.
And if you really want to get funky, try going out stereo to 2 heads with attenuators - 11CM lol! 🤣 (tried it - it works but ... 🤓)
 
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