4 Cable Method Problem

A

AlexGuitar

Inspired
Everyone, I need some help:

I am playing a gig soon that does not allow direct to FOH modelers. However, they will allow me to use their amps w/ FX loops, which they then proceed to mic. Yes, I know it's silly, but sometimes the venue gets what they want.

I tried to set up the 4cm based on the manual and a Vox AC30 I have at home to test it, but by the time I get the output one (FX return) turned up anywhere unity, I'm getting output 1 clipping lights. I haven't even turned any presets on. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 
Are you wanting to use the preamp of the AC30? Why not let the Axe-FX III do all of the amp modeling?

If it was me, I would forget about 4CM. Plug your guitar into the Axe, then take the output from that into the effects return of the amp.
 
I’d say I was going to wire it as if I was going to do 4CM, but I’d actually use the setup on p. 26 in the manual, which uses more of the FX3’s capabilities.

As a worse case scenario fallback I’d take the same preset, copy it to a different slot, and take out the amp block and go straight into the front of the amp, based on p. 30. If you have to do that yell at the amp and act exasperated as you reconfigure.

The difference between the two methods is that the first lets you use the modeler’s various Amp model’s preamps, whereas the second relies exclusively on the tube amp’s pre and power amps.

I’d rather rely on at least the Fractal’s preamp because too many backline amps are not maintained. I have been known to raise a stink when told I can’t at least use my own tube amps. :) Good luck!
 
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Id either skip the gig or tell them to pop a mic on my monitor. Thats just asinine. More power to you dealing with that idiocy and good luck!
 
Feflicker said:
Id either skip the gig or tell them to pop a mic on my monitor. Thats just asinine. More power to you dealing with that idiocy and good luck!
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I know it's insane, but it's a battle of the bands type competition, and I guess they don't want to give anyone an "unfair advantage." But they let bands use tracks, so...

I've already emailed the related people and requested an exception, but no dice.
 
boyedav said:
Are you wanting to use the preamp of the AC30? Why not let the Axe-FX III do all of the amp modeling?

If it was me, I would forget about 4CM. Plug your guitar into the Axe, then take the output from that into the effects return of the amp.
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I'm not actually using the AC30. They are using Marshall JCM2000s which I'll have to use at the gig? I'm just using the Vox and a Peavey Delta Blues to test the 4CM because I don't have a Marshall to try.

I'm also going to try what you suggested, but I'm nervous about it because the Marshall poweramp will color the sound and I can only test with the other amps. How much of an issue do you think this will be?
 
I also noticed that when I tried this with a Peavey Delta Blues, the problem did not occur. I think maybe the fx send of an AC30 is just really hot?
 
AlexGuitar said:
I'm not actually using the AC30. They are using Marshall JCM2000s which I'll have to use at the gig? I'm just using the Vox and a Peavey Delta Blues to test the 4CM because I don't have a Marshall to try.

I'm also going to try what you suggested, but I'm nervous about it because the Marshall poweramp will color the sound and I can only test with the other amps. How much of an issue do you think this will be?
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Any tube power amp will color the sound. plus the preamp in the AC30 is probably going to be different than what's at the gig.

I'm still not sure why you want to use 4CM. Why do you need it to go through the amp's preamp section, rather than just plugging the output of your Axe into the FX return of the amp?
 
boyedav said:
Any tube power amp will color the sound. plus the preamp in the AC30 is probably going to be different than what's at the gig.

I'm still not sure why you want to use 4CM. Why do you need it to go through the amp's preamp section, rather than just plugging the output of your Axe into the FX return of the amp?
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I wasn't planning on using the AxeFX's amp modeling at all - my goal was to use it as an fx unit, but reverb and delay don't sound great just going into the front. However, maybe I'll try just using the fx return
 
AlexGuitar said:
I'm not actually using the AC30. They are using Marshall JCM2000s which I'll have to use at the gig? I'm just using the Vox and a Peavey Delta Blues to test the 4CM because I don't have a Marshall to try.

I'm also going to try what you suggested, but I'm nervous about it because the Marshall poweramp will color the sound and I can only test with the other amps. How much of an issue do you think this will be?
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4CM can be awesome, but the level of complexity would be too high for me to be comfortable if I was going to have to use a rented backline that I could not tweak into the ballpark and get the levels sorted beforehand. Way too much to go wrong and not enough time to compensate.

I concur with others that just running into effect return on the Marshall will be far simpler and produce less anxiety.
 
Here is my take. Since it is a quick set up thing your best bet is to use the EL return on the JCM. They are notoriously noisy but the power amp alone is fine. 4cm is great but especially noisy with the AF. Your sound is not going to get colored all that much. You could copy your preset with power amp modeling off vs on to test it.

One cable in and you’re there.
 
Just a couple of other quick bits of advice from some festival experiences where everyone was required to use the - shudder - same backline: try and aim for as few patches as humanly possible, if your patches contain compression, delay and/or reverb, you'll want to back them off a good bit as a tube power section is going to compress significantly at volume. Tweak your patch with that Vox cranked to roughly stage volume (that will be painfully loud in the room).

If the other groups are plugging straight into the backline, I would shoot for making sure your patches don't fall apart at high levels and aim to match the other group's stage volume. It sounds like the sound person is going to be unlikely to make a lot of tweaks on your behalf, so plan accordingly.
 
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