My reaction after taking a break

[rog]

If you own an fm3 and you end up preferring the Helix, that is a fail in my opinion, and I own both. If you ve failed to get better tones out of an fm3, that deserves some kind of investigation because option paralysis is nothing compared to endless tone tweaking on a Helix.

I don't agree that it's easier to get tones out of the Helix. Stock settings are shite on the Helix, it's famous for that. Fm3 tones are very good at default because the tones are better to begin with. You don't even need to mess with the deep parameters.

Now if you said you prefer Helix for foot switching, I would agree, but that's the only area it is better in.

That's kind of a weird POV. I don't understand why people can't accept that the right tool for one person isn't necessarily the right tool for another.

 

[Joshua_L]

If you own an fm3 and you end up preferring the Helix, that is a fail in my opinion, and I own both. If you ve failed to get better tones out of an fm3, that deserves some kind of investigation because option paralysis is nothing compared to endless tone tweaking on a Helix.

I don't agree that it's easier to get tones out of the Helix. Stock settings are shite on the Helix, it's famous for that. Fm3 tones are very good at default because the tones are better to begin with. You don't even need to mess with the deep parameters.

Now if you said you prefer Helix for foot switching, I would agree, but that's the only area it is better in.

Sounds like a fanboy.

There are plenty of digital tools today like there is ton of amps and guitar to choose from.

I’m a tube amp guy, my first digital modeler (that I really use as amp sim) was a kemper.
I just f… hated it. Tons of people get crazy good tones but me… no I more than hated it. There we’re something wrong that did work with me.

Does there someone out there having awesome tones from kemper? Yes ! Cause it’s the right tool for them.

I’ve always been a Marshall/cornford guy (rk100 was my favorite tube amp ever) and you can tell me 1 millions times that mesa is greater, that will not work for me.
I just can’t play anything and don’t feel any pleasure playing a mesa.

So it’s just the right tools for the right person.

 

[Paulzx]

That's kind of a weird POV. I don't understand why people can't accept that the right tool for one person isn't necessarily the right tool for another.

Because what I'm saying is, the Helix is a lot harder to get good tones dialled in, the FM3 is a lot better even in default settings, so if you're claiming your FM3 sounds rubbish in comparison to a Helix, you must have done something wrong on your FM3.

I think that's a very easy concept to follow no?

 

[Paulzx]

Sounds like a fanboy.

You know the funny thing? I was a fan boy - of the Helix for the last 5 or 6 years. The reason I'm saying the FM3 is much better is because I have ears.

Yes the right tool for the right job is a perfectly sound argument, but the OP was saying his FM3 sounded like garbage compared to he Helix so it's a different argument. I fired up my Helix again this weekend to refresh my memory. I have some okayish tones on it. Switch on the FM3 again and it's in a different league, sorry. I've spent too much time on the Helix over the years to know it doesn't sound better than a fractal, not any day of the week, not after any amount of beers.

Now if you were to say your Helix is better because it allows better foot switching options for playing live, I would agree. That is it's strength. Not the tone.

 

[frankencat]

Not to jump on the fanboy train but I agree with Paulzx to a degree. As someone who owns/has owned many Line 6 products including two Helix's, a Kemper, Boss GX-100 and an FM3, I tend to agree that the available tones in the FM3 are great if not superior to what I can get from other units. I have gigged and recorded with them all and I am no bedroom player, although I do play a lot in my office Anyway, I sometimes play by Boss GX-100 for extended periods because that is my main rig for church. I love it's flexibility and it is built like a tank and always sounds good. I just came off a couple of months of that. I have done some live gigs in between with real amps and pedals too. Now I am back to the FM3 at home, working out some new songs and doing some demos and guess what? It is a frikken amazing sounding beast! Nothing else I have matches the depth or "realism" of the sounds I have setup - FOR ME. The Boss is fun and is great for my in-ear church gigs. The Tonex is fun to mess around with but if I am going to go through all of that with pedals and such I will just plug into one of several amps I have. The FM3, well it made me sell my Kemper which was the previous king of the mountain for me. The Helix...everytime I plug into that thing I struggle to get the same sounds I get with the other gear. It always sounds flubby, fizzy, and fake to me, and it just never feels right. In the past I have gigged with it a bunch and thought it sounded ok but I think my ears have evolved and what was once "OK" is now "suck" lol. Anyway, use what makes you happy and don't sweat it, and thank you for your service OP.

 

[sprint]

"Sounds good / better / great ..." = completely subjective and can't be correct or not. More specific, measurable terms like accuracy to original circuit, dynamics ... can be proven to be correct or not so are not so subjective. So, if it's just a "my ears tell me" discussion (as it usually is here since work is required to definitively prove something), there's no wright / wrong / better / worse. I have an HX Stomp and think it's brilliant in many ways but the sonic aspect of that opinion is basically useless to anyone but me and anyone who might have oddly gained some understanding of my personal perception of sounds. Here's a factual one: HX Stomp has separate left and right IO blocks for all physical inputs and outputs - that's an aspect that is better than my Ax3 for some use cases I have. I suspect Ax3 has more accurate models, but to be completely credible I'd have to post some sort of analysis to substantiate that which I don't really know (or care to know) how to do - if I'm not mistaken though, Fractal's done that type of thing in their various ooh charts and graphs deep dives. Going down my own list of objectively provable items: looks like no contest in Fractal's favour given my on and off use cases over 15y of use - an impressive lead given HX has evolved quite well also over the years (but I'm far too lazy to develop / post all the analysis so good luck in your journeys).

 

[rog]

Because what I'm saying is, the Helix is a lot harder to get good tones dialled in, the FM3 is a lot better even in default settings, so if you're claiming your FM3 sounds rubbish in comparison to a Helix, you must have done something wrong on your FM3.

I think that's a very easy concept to follow no?

Oh, I understand the concept. It's just a fanboi concept that doesn't allow for people being different, and relating to different things. The Line 6 approach works well for an awful lot of people.

No one tool is the right tool for everyone. And I say that as someone who used a Helix for a long time, came over to this side of the street, and find the Fractal to be a better tool for me, personally.

 

[rog]

Not to jump on the fanboy train but I agree with Paulzx to a degree. As someone who owns/has owned many Line 6 products including two Helix's, a Kemper, Boss GX-100 and an FM3, I tend to agree that the available tones in the FM3 are great if not superior to what I can get from other units. I have gigged and recorded with them all and I am no bedroom player, although I do play a lot in my office Anyway, I sometimes play by Boss GX-100 for extended periods because that is my main rig for church. I love it's flexibility and it is built like a tank and always sounds good. I just came off a couple of months of that. I have done some live gigs in between with real amps and pedals too. Now I am back to the FM3 at home, working out some new songs and doing some demos and guess what? It is a frikken amazing sounding beast! Nothing else I have matches the depth or "realism" of the sounds I have setup - FOR ME. The Boss is fun and is great for my in-ear church gigs. The Tonex is fun to mess around with but if I am going to go through all of that with pedals and such I will just plug into one of several amps I have. The FM3, well it made me sell my Kemper which was the previous king of the mountain for me. The Helix...everytime I plug into that thing I struggle to get the same sounds I get with the other gear. It always sounds flubby, fizzy, and fake to me, and it just never feels right. In the past I have gigged with it a bunch and thought it sounded ok but I think my ears have evolved and what was once "OK" is now "suck" lol. Anyway, use what makes you happy and don't sweat it, and thank you for your service OP.

I've highlighted the relevant bit of your response. What YOU can get is great. Sounds like it's the best tool for you. But if you are calling out people who prefer other products, questioning their ability or ears because they feel they can get better out of something else, like Paul is (and you don't appear to be, thankfully), then your commitment to a product might be a bit overboard.

 

[frankencat]

What? I am not calling out anybody or asking anyone to agree with me. I am just sharing my personal experience and opinion.

 

[rog]

What? I am not calling out anybody or asking anyone to agree with me. I am just sharing my personal experience and opinion.

When I said "and you don't appear to be, thankfully", I meant it didn't look like you were.

 

[Paulzx]

Oh, I understand the concept. It's just a fanboi concept that doesn't allow for people being different, and relating to different things. The Line 6 approach works well for an awful lot of people.

No one tool is the right tool for everyone. And I say that as someone who used a Helix for a long time, came over to this side of the street, and find the Fractal to be a better tool for me, personally.

It's not a fanboy concept at all, it's what the overwhelming majority opinion is.

I have a Helix floor right next to my FM3. I've had the Helix for 5 or 6 years, I've done everything you can do with it. It can be a good tool like any of these modelers can, and if you like using it, all power to you. No one is telling you not to use it.

I've had my FM3 for about 3 months and from a tone perspective, it's far superior. Not exactly a controversial opinion, it's just that when you say your FM3 sounds like garbage compared to your Helix, I have to wonder how you've managed to produce that result lol. I spent years trying to make my helix tones sound like I wanted, yet my FM3 achieved that almost as soon as I had it set up.

Use what you think sounds best, no one here is going to tell you it has to be Fractal

 

[rog]

It's not a fanboy concept at all, it's what the overwhelming majority opinion is.

In here, yes. There's a big world outside of here where people have different opinions.

I have a Helix floor right next to my FM3. I've had the Helix for 5 or 6 years, I've done everything you can do with it.

You have not. You can say you've completely wrung it out all you want, none of us are touching the full potential of these things.

It can be a good tool like any of these modelers can, and if you like using it, all power to you. No one is telling you not to use it.

I've had my FM3 for about 3 months and from a tone perspective, it's far superior.

For you, and your workflow. For me and mine, too! But I'm never going to tell someone what the right tool is for them, or suggest they're an idiot if they think otherwise. That's what you did, that's what I took issue with.

Not exactly a controversial opinion, it's just that when you say your FM3 sounds like garbage compared to your Helix, I have to wonder how you've managed to produce that result lol. I spent years trying to make my helix tones sound like I wanted, yet my FM3 achieved that almost as soon as I had it set up.

So you couldn't figure out the Helix. Nothing wrong with that, and it's great you found the right tool for you.

Use what you think sounds best, no one here is going to tell you it has to be Fractal

You'll just cast aspersions if they do, in fact, find something else works better for them.

 

[John Deschain]

To me it's a personal thing for each user. I'm a tube guy and I've owned a Helix and tried most of the other modellers out there.
For me the amp and cab tones from the fractal stuff is fair superior to my ears. The models and cabs react, feel and sound very close to the real thing. All the other modellers I've tried are not in the same league.
Given the choice between my tube rig and the fm3, the tube rig is always the winner when it comes to tone and feel. The fm3 serves a specific purpose for me, and in that context, I couldn't be happier.

 

[GuyJames]

I really wish this was true, then I could have simply carried on using my Helix floor! For an FM3 to sound like garbage, you really have to be doing something wrong in my opinion. I'm new to the FM3 but it's really easy to dial in great tones, some you don't even have to dial in at all.

I am playing high gain rock and metal though, in which case there's no comparison between the units. What sort of tones are you playing.. which amp models sounded like garbage?

I think I just had a lot more compression all around with the fractal in my effects chain. I removed most of it and things feel good again.

 

[GuyJames]

Perhaps you can shed some light on what “garbage” sounds like to you. But to the compression, it’s one of the most complex tools in audio to really master.

Aside from putting a compressor in your blockchain, there’s still other parameters to look at… like the speaker compression in the cab block, the sag button in the amp block. Plus, changing power output tubes as well as the variac control.

I use more compression if I’m playing live and everything is monitored in ear and I’m going direct. I’m not trying to squash transients, but more raise the floor a bit to keep the guitar sitting in the mix better.

But yes, I too oscillate between helix and fractal. For a university ensemble I teach, I got them HX stomps for guitars and bass. They are at the very least great for someone new to the modelling world (and amps in general) because there are less options to mess around with as they’re already baked in.

Sean Meredith-Jones

By garbage I guess my initial reaction was “this sounds thin and frail” the overdrive was harsher in the highs and didn’t have the squishy sag I dialed in on the HX stomp. I’ve since made it better but now I’m using IEM’s and the suck is back… I can’t enjoy IEM’s for the life of me.

 

[GuyJames]

Which band are you in?

Stationed at hickam in Hawaii. Band of the pacific.

 

[GuyJames]

To me it's a personal thing for each user. I'm a tube guy and I've owned a Helix and tried most of the other modellers out there.
For me the amp and cab tones from the fractal stuff is fair superior to my ears. The models and cabs react, feel and sound very close to the real thing. All the other modellers I've tried are not in the same league.
Given the choice between my tube rig and the fm3, the tube rig is always the winner when it comes to tone and feel. The fm3 serves a specific purpose for me, and in that context, I couldn't be happier.

I’m getting close to using an amp again and just have fractal for post amp effects/switching. The feel and onstage monitoring with amp is just how guitar gods meant it to be

 

[Jumpback]

I tried very hard to like my Line 6 Helix Rack. It sat right below my AX3 and I actually went a whole month of playing it only. After much tweaking I got some good hard rock tones and was semi happy with it. That was until I decided to turn on the AX3 again. It was such a big difference that I never used the Helix again and sold it. Everyone has a different idea of what their sound should be so for some Line 6 may be it. For myself i will always be a Fractal person.

Same exact thing here, I really did try

 

[John Deschain]

Had a Helix for a year. Forced myself to live with it as I'm a life long tube guy and figured I'd get used to it. Nope, went back to tubes and was happy again. Recently bought a fm3 and I'm happy with it when I use it. Won't replace my tube rig, but it's pretty sweet.

 

[jetdriver1775]

Had a Helix for a year. Forced myself to live with it as I'm a life long tube guy and figured I'd get used to it. Nope, went back to tubes and was happy again. Recently bought a fm3 and I'm happy with it when I use it. Won't replace my tube rig, but it's pretty sweet.

When it comes to Fractal, the more time you spend with it, the more you will discover new ways to improve and enhance your tone. At least, that's been my experience. I've been a Fractal guy for 4 years now (FM3 & 9) and I'm still learning new tips & tricks. The overall experience has been one of continuous improvement and satisfaction.