Fractal or Kemper

T

Tim Staddon

Member
im new here and about to spend some cash on a new guitar unit. I’m torn between kemper and a fractal unit. Ax8 or a fx2 , or a powered kemper. Not sure which sounds best. I understand I’ll need to get a power amp for the fractal. Any advice would be helpful.ive heard many sound clips on you tube but can’t decide on which has better sound quality out of fractal or kemper. i only practice in bedroom and already have a 2x12 Marshall cab but have not bought a power amp yet as not decided which power amp to get. Help !!!!
 
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You don't need either to be powered, depending on your setup. I run my AX8 into both studio monitors and FRFR cabs, both which are powered speakers. If you want to run a non-powered speaker such as a guitar cab (bypassing internal cab modeling) then yes you will need a separate power amp.
As far as which sounds better, I truly can not say. I've had the AX8 for about 8 months or so and it's the best guitar related purchase I've ever made, hands down!! Never played a Kemper but I've used damn near every hardware and software modeler out there since the original Digitech RP1 to the current Line6 Helix and Headrush and the AX8 simply blew me away! I'm sure the Kemper is great just as well, but they seem to offer a different experience.
From my basic understanding it seems the Kemper really shines at replicating an exact setup (amp, cab, mic, room...) to a high degree. The AX8 while the same is replicating a particular amp Cliff referenced, I imagine has more options than the Kemper as to how the amps characteristics can be changed, along with how the real amps' controls work, cab, speaker... plus the huge array of studio quality FX.

What do you want out of a modeler?
 
Hi Tim,

That’s at the same time hard but easy - if you have a bunch of excellent amps and speakers that are all you want to model, perhaps the Kemper?
If you want a unit that models actual amplifiers and speakers, and want the treble, bas, etc controls to work just as they do on the real thing, go for the fractal.
I do suggest th a t. You use studio monitors or very high quality stage monitors in both cases.
Of course you will get a biased response here as this is the fractal forums, however in my opinion, the bias is warranted.
I’ve had an Axe Fx III for a. Little. While and am coming. Up to 20 firmware updates already - fractal are an amazing company and really care about their customers.
Thanks
Pauly
 
HEY Tim
I own a Kemper as well as the full Fractal roster, and spend 95 % of my playing time with the AxeFx III...if you are intending to remain a bedroom player, IMO that 2x12 cab may be overkill for your needs and ears..as Pauly and others would advise, a pair of quality monitors will benefit you greatly...also keep in mind that the AX8 has no dedicated headphone out..axefx II and III , and Kemper does
If you do choose a Kemper , (no one here will advise that) make sure you check out MBritt profiles..they are the reason I still keep the Kemper, and there are a few profiles in his collections that sound as good as anything Ive heard....but for me , the Fractal ecosystem and total sound wins . The most effective use of Kemper IMO Is by musicians who have their signature sound with existing valuable/fragile tube amp/effects and profile that sound for the road....Ive seen Pat Metheny and Steve Winwood do that successfully,
But the Fractal artist roster is pretty unbeatable ....
 
Thanks for the reply. Can you recommend a rack mounted power amp for the ax8 or fx 3. Don’t need anything too nuts in wattage. My friend is selling a Mesa boogie 50/ 50 power amp but worried it might colour the tone.I see the matrix amps seem popular
 
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Tim Staddon said:
im new here and about to spend some cash on a new guitar unit. I’m torn between kemper and a fractal unit. Ax8 or a fx2 , or a powered kemper. Not sure which sounds best. I understand I’ll need to get a power amp for the fractal. Any advice would be helpful.ive heard many sound clips on you tube but can’t decide on which has better sound quality out of fractal or kemper. i only practice in bedroom and already have a 2x12 Marshall cab but have not bought a power amp yet as not decided which power amp to get. Help !!!!
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Here is how I see it (owning Helix, Fractal and Kemper).

Helix: models electronic components and puts together digital “circuits” with those models to emulate a specific amp and effects. Great idea. But remember, 2 of the same amps can sound different (lead lengths, component “freshness”, solder joints, etc.) and with every digital representation of a component, is an “approximation” (digital bit rounding). Put it together, good amount of “digital sample rounding”. But by tweaking EQ, etc you can get good sound. Better for FXs because it models the “extremes” of the FX. Best for FX, not as good for amp “modeling”.

Fractal: Similar to Helix, but they model at the circuit level. Same pluses and minuses. Best for FX, not as good for amp “modeling”.

Kemper: No circuit emulation, but amp “sound” emulation. Models based on a number of parameters like freq range, spectrum analysis, etc. FX, same modeling. Best for amp sound (because it “simulates” the sound and dynamics of an amp. But captures FX and amps in only 1 state (volume, settings, etc). So morphing thru the sound “range” is not as effective because it uses digital “extrapolation” for changes in sound “ranges”. Best for Amps, not as good for effects.

My experience with these absolutely affirms this thinking. Kemper amps are superior but FXs not as good. Helix and Fractal FXs great and Amps take much more “tweaking” to get the way I want them to sound.
 
Sound quality? Kemper wins hands down for me. To me it was no contest and I compared extensively.

If you want to the ability to tweak effects, be creative with effects, and make your own unique amp sounds go with Fractal. Kemper effects are good, but Fractal wins as far as having more effects and being able to tweak.
 
Tim Staddon said:
but can’t decide on which has better sound quality out of fractal or kemper
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This is so subjective only you can answer this question for yourself.

If you poll this forum you'll get a appropriately biased response, of course.
 
I owned both, at the same time. No absolute differences in sound quality. There was a fanatic jcm800 profile for the KPA which I loved, just spot on per my taste, but there were also amps in the Fractal which sounded better. Concert or Bandmaster for example, just stellar sound, again per my taste.

There is 0% chance I could ID either in a track though. Zero chance. They can sound different in an a/b, but “better” is subjective.

I don’t see how anyone could say one sounds better overall, as both sound like amps.

Given setting? Sure you can prefer one or the other, but BOTH have infinite sounds possible with tons of things you can tweak.

No one is going to listen to an album and go “guitars are okay, but I can hear you didn’t use ______ instead”

I love the tones of artists using the KPA and I love the tones of artist using FAS.

If they swapped rigs, I’m pretty sure I’d still like them just as much.
 
Most of the people I play with that have Kempers also use pedal boards with all their pedals. They use the Kemper strictly as an amp and not for the effects. If you are playing at bedroom volumes you don't need a poweramp, invest in a set of powered monitors for the bedroom. If you're playing out you can go direct to the PA from unit without a poweramp or get some type of powered monitor like an Atomic CLR. I use my Atomic CLR wedge in my home when I want to hear some thing at volume, otherwise I just use my studio monitors or headphones. Have fun shopping?
 
After 8 years with my trusted Kemper I switched to Fractal as for my purpose the sound has more clarity and effects are more pristine. Nothing wrong with the Kemper but for my purpose playing cleanish, crunch and Carton type of overdrive the Fractal sounds very convincing and has more overtones and clarity (difficult to describe). The Kemper tends to come up with a certain mid range overlay that is not present at the Fractal. I also tried the Helix for a month - amazing interface and also the amps can sound very good - but again, there was also something in the midrange difficult to dial out. Also distortion could be a bit strange in the bass range.

All of them are great as such and if you do note compare you will probably be happy with either of them. The main thing is having fun and make good music. All these products have may too much options :)


Rock on Sacapuntas.
 
Somewhat related, this weekend at a tribute show (here in Colorado) I saw the first "local" Kemper at a show (I wanted to say first at all but then I remembered Andy James had brought one too). The Deftones tribute there of course had a II. I've seen many Fractals over the years here. I remember a Death Metal show about a year ago where the first local band had two Ultra's, Allegaeon next had two IIs, and headliner NeObliviscaris (from Australia, I guess they had to travel lightly) had two AX8. Total Fractal Fest :)
 
I think it’s important to mention the III’s modeling improvements. It’s been generally accepted for a while now that the Kemper has a small tone and feel advantage over Fractal.

I think the Axe III changes that. If you want the Fractal effects and workflow + the best possible modeling, the Axe III is the way to go.

The Axe II and Ax8 still sound great, but their modeling is a step down from the III and - I’m told - the Kemper.
 
I own both an AxeFx and a KPA (powered toaster version)

I do quiet practice at home - I prefer total quiet practice - so I use headphones

I also like to play along with backing tracks playing from my PC or record direct to DAW

Winner: AxeFx (can be used as USB sound device and has headphones socket)

Both the KPA and AX8 can't be used as a sound device interface so you'll need to supply your own interface between them and your PC ( I use a Yamaha MX10XU 10 channel USB mixer - as well as dedicated USB in volume it has headphones socket so I can hear nice 'latency free' mix of both sound coming from PC and from guitar processor).

If just wanting to quickly power up something and hear yourself solo via headphones then both AxeFx and KPA beat the AX8 because the latter has no headphone out - you'd need to make or buy your own cable to use the outputs to headphones (not a biggie I guess).

Portability for live situations
Winner: KPA powered toaster and KPA dedicated footswitch - both fit nicely into a double kick pedal padded case. That and a passive cab of some sort and the rig could be complete ('could' being subjective on how you like the KPA FX - you might prefer to use your own pedals)

However, an AX8 is an all in one footswitch and processor so portability on that side would be better - BUT you also need either a powered monitor or separate SS amp and your current 2x12 cab to complete the rig to be used as backline.

The AxeFx needs to be racked - however I have mine in a 4U padded rack case along with a Matrix GT1000FX power amp and a front breakout I/O 1U panel and it's very light to carry. The MFC footswitch and expression pedals mounted on a PedalTrain in a soft padded case are heavier and add bulk to the rig as a whole.

Sounds
Winner: I'm going to say AxeFx or AX8 because while there's probably not that much difference between the Fractal units and KPA raw amp and cab tone, the AxeFx and AX8 have serious quality FX built in.

The KPA really needs to have profiles made at all the various gain stages you want to use the profiled amp at - you can try altering the original profile by changing gain and Bass /Mid /Treble parameters via the knobs but you'll be detracting from the original profile by doing so because those parameters are global and nothing like the actual profiled amps' tonestack controls. The Fractal units model the entire preamp and power amp of the original amps so it's capable of authentic interaction between the tonestack eq controls and gain amount etc.

Creating your own profiles on the KPA isn't quite as easy as it's made out to be - if you're serious about it then you'll need decent mics and mic-pres to do a decent job

You'll almost certainly end up buying Kemper profiles - but with the Fractals you just can start from scratch and build your own sound without paying anyone. (You can pay for pre-made presets and third party Cab IRs for the Fractals too if you want)

With the Fractals you just find the amp model and tweak it to taste along with a nice Cab IR (either factory one or buy a Cab pack to use).

Customisation
Winner: the Fractals
You can do some serious tweaking with them like trying different tubes and moving the tonestack eq position around as well as alter all the other geeky stuff that makes a real amp work.

If I wasn't in a couple of live bands and wanted something for home use without too much faffing about I'd probably choose the AX8 and use my mixer and Studio Monitors. Hook the USB from PC to the mixer and I could create loads. It would do quality live playing duty too with the addition of a power amp and cab.

However because I'm gigging fairly regularly I'm well used to carting gear about so the AxeFx or KPA suit me. Or my old tube rig .... or .... (something from 20+ years of collecting stuff :))

Taking all into consideration .... the overall winner of all things I own? The AxeFx. Hugely enjoyable tool to have sitting beside your computer. .... even with a semi-luddite Tool sitting in front of the computer!
 
Used both kemper and axe fx extensively... profiled/tone matched quite a few setups too. For me Axe Fx 2 or 3 is ahead of kemper when it comes to feel and tone. Profiling amps with kemper, I know what to expect: in my profiling, there will be some missing depth, and the mids won't be as accurate compared to source tone. Axe fx simply provides a greater ability to correct details. Then there's also the massive, to me, advantage of modeled tone-stacks as well as the ability to dial in tones using both preamp and poweramp distortion at the same time, which kemper rarely does well enough.

Then there's the fact that.. kemper hasn't changed too much through the years when it comes to core tone, no matter how many times the same stuff has been pointed out, one time after another. Cocked wah bonanza.... drop it down... like TS dancah.. And considering where fractal is at now... I'd be more confident investing in something like an axe fx 3 compared to kemper, even considering the more frequent hardware updates from fractal.

That said, I think it's still easy to exaggerate tonal differences. What I say may sound as if I'm describing some night and day difference. Not really the case. But yes, sitting down in a controlled environment and doing tests, this is my view pretty much. Usually, digital units lack some "depth" compared to real amps. But I feel axe fx gives me more of a chance to correct nuances as well as I can. With kemper I'm more so stuck with the profiling result, which even if good, is generally not as impressive to me when I do know what I can do with axe.
 
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Tim Staddon said:
Thanks for the reply. Can you recommend a rack mounted power amp for the ax8 or fx 3. Don’t need anything too nuts in wattage. My friend is selling a Mesa boogie 50/ 50 power amp but worried it might colour the tone.I see the matrix amps seem popular
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I got a Harley Benton GPA 400 last week and it’s going to run my ax8 into either a Marshall 1960 4x12 or 2x12. It sounds great, and will be ample for a back line or stage monitor if there’s an option for FOH (not often the gigs I play). And it was only 170 euros I think new.
 
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