Axe-FX II - nice but gone like the wind

[hippietim]

I've been gigging with an Ultra for over 3 years now so I was pretty stoked to get the II. I paid the jump the line price. It came. It sounded very good but it didn't smoke the Ultra. Not by a long shot. The interface is a little nicer and the defaults are more sensible in most cases. The biggest improvement for me in terms of getting good tones quickly was the addition of a lot more cab IRs preloaded that I liked. I spent a fair amount of time dialing in tones and playing a variety of stuff. The sonic improvements are there but they weren't the kinds of things that are going stand out in a mix or make me "connect" with it any better. As we've seen already, future firmware can improve things substantially over time so the prospects are good. In the end, I just didn't have a compelling reason to switch to the II at this time so it's gone.

In the end, it's still a modeler (for better or for worse). It's still just *almost* as good as the real thing. I hadn't played a gig with a traditional tube rig in several years until this past Saturday. It was awesome. So much so that I think the Ultra is going to get sidelined for a while.

 

[Sixstring]

What kind of amp are you going to play through?

 

[scotts]

Funny how personal experience works huh?

It sounded very good but it didn't smoke the Ultra.

In terms of overall feel I find it to be a significant step up.

The sonic improvements are there but they weren't the kinds of things that are going stand out in a mix or make me "connect" with it any better.

Once again I had/am having the complete opposite experience. I have been getting a lot deeper into my tone lately. It has been enough of a difference that several bandmates have commented on the overall improvement in the vibe-e-ness of my rig.

It's still just *almost* as good as the real thing.

In terms of live performance I find the Axe II to completely destroy any "real" amp/rig I can build. Working with far-field IRs I believe I can equal or surpass any real amp in an up close in the room test as well. I have completely stumped several sensitive players in blind, in the room listening tests. Like I said, funny how different central nervous systems perceive things huh?

I hadn't played a gig with a traditional tube rig in several years until this past Saturday. It was awesome.

I have this friend and musical associate named Mark Kimbrell. Ask Derek Trucks who his favorite guitar players are and Mark is up there at the top of the list. A small handful of well known, deep players feel this way about Mark. Anyways, he is a fifty-three year old, old school tube fanatic and he has incredibly sensitive, experienced ears. He thought my Ultra rig was good but not great. For the last three nights Mark sat in with me at my house gig. Each night he brought a different very nice tube rig and each night he got frustrated that he couldn't get anywhere near the tone I was getting. The third night he played his beautiful dot neck 335 through my rig while I sat out. He went into his zone immediately and played his ass off. He is considering purchasing an Axe II. If you knew him you would know how impossible a thought like that is to him.

Oh well. No contest intended. Just always amazed at wildly differing experiences among skilled, experienced musicians. Best of luck Tim. May your power tubes never blow!

 

[rupe]

I've been gigging with an Ultra for over 3 years now so I was pretty stoked to get the II. I paid the jump the line price. It came. It sounded very good but it didn't smoke the Ultra. Not by a long shot. The interface is a little nicer and the defaults are more sensible in most cases. The biggest improvement for me in terms of getting good tones quickly was the addition of a lot more cab IRs preloaded that I liked. I spent a fair amount of time dialing in tones and playing a variety of stuff. The sonic improvements are there but they weren't the kinds of things that are going stand out in a mix or make me "connect" with it any better. As we've seen already, future firmware can improve things substantially over time so the prospects are good. In the end, I just didn't have a compelling reason to switch to the II at this time so it's gone.

In the end, it's still a modeler (for better or for worse). It's still just *almost* as good as the real thing. I hadn't played a gig with a traditional tube rig in several years until this past Saturday. It was awesome. So much so that I think the Ultra is going to get sidelined for a while.

Great, honest review. And I understand the enjoyment going back to a tube rig all too well. My favorite model on my Ultra was the Marsha...so much so that I decided to try the real thing. Glad I did as what I found was well beyond what I got from the Axe (which was still great)...there's simply a response and feel there that the Axe just doesn't bring IMO. The Axe sounds and feels great...the real thing even greater.

I still think the Axe is an invaluable tool for recording but I'm back to real amps for gigs.

 

[Scott Peterson]

It's not a contest; everyone has different needs/preferences and taste.

It's cool that folks like one box over another and it's cool that they share their opinions.

Tool boxes are tool boxes. It's not a 'battle' between boxes for popular opinion; it's about 'fit' for the player and once you find the fit, a) it's great that anyone would still be open to checking out other boxes; b) can still use analog gear and get a charge from it.

Just because you use one box doesn't mean all other boxes suck or that you can't successfully and enjoyably work with any given set of gear. It's a bigger universe than that; and the 'there is only one' folks need attitude adjustment.

Having fun with your gear - no matter what you use/prefer/don't use - is the key. The rest is superfluous.

 

[FPFL]

to me, after having a lot of choice, having very little choice can seem damn refreshing. its not really Axe vs Tubes or whatever other gear IMHO.
its fun to have nothing but a say an old Boss DS-1 and some SS amp and see how decent you can make it work.

A lot of the alleged better we get hung up about is wildly academic to everyone else on earth, including people who attend live concerts.

If you've found happiness that lasts in ANYTHING, then good on you.

That said, the AFII has gotten 95% of my plugged in use since I bought in and I've hardly tweaked a damn thing. The presets are great. I haven't even tried -anything- above 48 yet or edited lots of FX to my usual defaults.
I get "stuck" well before then just playing and forget that I like my delay a little more dry and my verb a little more wet...until its 12 AM and I go "Oh crap, work will $%^ #$%^ tomorrow."

 

[hippietim]

Once again I had/am having the complete opposite experience. I have been getting a lot deeper into my tone lately. It has been enough of a difference that several bandmates have commented on the overall improvement in the vibe-e-ness of my rig.

I had the same feedback from the band and some guitar buddies of mine that came to the gig last Saturday when I was playing with the tube rig. Too funny.

 

[hippietim]

scotts - what monitor did you end up with?

 

[rickboot]

I had the same feedback from the band and some guitar buddies of mine that came to the gig last Saturday when I was playing with the tube rig. Too funny.

That is funny.

The way a particular rig is dialed in for a specific environment can make all the difference. Most traditional tube rigs at gigs are probably run drier with less of a "like the record" studio tone which will make it sound more raw with more cut. Dial in the Axe-FX that way it will do the same, assuming your amplification is up to par.

 

[Robboman]

I had the same feedback from the band and some guitar buddies of mine that came to the gig last Saturday when I was playing with the tube rig. Too funny.

Hey Tim, what was your Ultra gigging setup.. poweramp into guitar cab or FRFR? This was the key for me... everyone wants you to go fully FRFR using IRs, but I would have gone back to tube amps too if I hadn't tried Ultra > ART SLA2 > real guitar cabs onstage. Magical! (still use IRs for FOH and home recording).

btw.. currently I have gone back to tube rig for gigging, only because I was too dumb to hang onto my Ultra until I could buy a II in Canada. I miss the Ultra

 

[hippietim]

Hey Tim, what was your Ultra gigging setup.. poweramp into guitar cab or FRFR? This was the key for me... everyone wants you to go fully FRFR using IRs, but I would have gone back to tube amps too if I hadn't tried Ultra > ART SLA2 > real guitar cabs onstage. Magical! (still use IRs for FOH and home recording).

btw.. currently I have gone back to tube rig for gigging, only because I was too dumb to hang onto my Ultra until I could buy a II in Canada. I miss the Ultra

For FRFR, I've used a FBT 12ma, FBT 8ma, some awful JBL FRFR, QSC K10, and QSC HPR (whatever the model with a 12 was). I've also done a bunch of gigs with the Ultra into a Boogie 2:90 and Port City 2x12 cab.

 

[Tone Seeker]

scotts - what monitor did you end up with?

I'm really curious about that.

I'm also really curious to find out what you were using hippietim. Can you share your configuration as well?

Thanks.

Terry.

 

[hippietim]

I'm really curious about that.

I'm also really curious to find out what you were using hippietim. Can you share your configuration as well?

Thanks.

Terry.

scroll up.

 

[emperor_black]

In the end, it's still a modeler (for better or for worse). It's still just *almost* as good as the real thing. I hadn't played a gig with a traditional tube rig in several years until this past Saturday. It was awesome. So much so that I think the Ultra is going to get sidelined for a while.

Tim,
don't ever let john (jgcable) see this post. :lol This is all the fuel he needs.

 

[Robboman]

For FRFR, I've used a FBT 12ma, FBT 8ma, some awful JBL FRFR, QSC K10, and QSC HPR (whatever the model with a 12 was). I've also done a bunch of gigs with the Ultra into a Boogie 2:90 and Port City 2x12 cab.

Thanks - Looks like you tried even harder than me to like FRFR onstage. Also looks like the one thing you didn't try was Ultra into a plain, flat, solid state PA amp driving a guitar cab. Ultra poweramp sim ON, cab sims OFF. For me, that was the magic formula!

 

[Tone Seeker]

scroll up.

Thanks. Looks like you popped an answer up as I was writing my question (I was distracted for a minute before hitting "post").

I guess I'm wondering if you would feel the same way about the AxeFX II if you had an opportunity to play it through a high end FRFR solution. It really does make a big difference. I tried the K10, and I took it back. The same with a few others in a similar price range. I truly believe there are too many sonic compromises in high power stage monitors below a particular dollar threshold. That is to say, lots of power, light weight, good sound and inexpensive don't all exist at once.

I'm using in-ears right now but if I went back to a wedge I wouldn't be happy with anything less than a Tannoy PowerV12.

It will be interesting to find out what Scotts is using.

Terry.

 

[maxdown]

That is funny.

The way a particular rig is dialed in for a specific environment can make all the difference. Most traditional tube rigs at gigs are probably run drier with less of a "like the record" studio tone which will make it sound more raw with more cut. Dial in the Axe-FX that way it will do the same, assuming your amplification is up to par.

Absolutely spot on

I've always maintained that I want a 'Live' tone when playing live ... strange as that might sound. But with an Axe you can find yourself listening to a recording of someone and dialing up that tone - but take it live and it loses it's 'punch' - mainly due to the rest of the band blattering away with none of the mastered eq present on a recording. So .... I've convinced myself that the Axe can certainly get up there with studio recording ready tone .... but now I'm concentrating on a rawer backline sound. I had a Plexi years ago and in this digital age I'd forgotten that when you whacked that Plexi up a bit into higher gain crunch it almost sounded too harsh on it's own .... until the rest of the guys joined in and it found it's natural space.

It's been said many times on this board by much wiser heads than mine .... best way is to start simple .... amp block and cab block (or not even cab block if you're using conventional cabs) - get it up to stage volume and tweak it until it sounds like a raw rig ..... then fouter about with adding a drive block and time based effects etc.

The Gen 1s can do that pretty spectacularly ..... so the extra oompf of an Axe2 is something I want to hear ... even if it's only a little bit more! Add on the USB, X/Y, Phones, new grouping functions, effects etc. and the fact that it's only a bit more expensive than a new Ultra was (if you waited your turn) makes the Axe2 worth it in my eyes.

 

[hippietim]

Thanks - Looks like you tried even harder than me to like FRFR onstage. Also looks like the one thing you didn't try was Ultra into a plain, flat, solid state PA amp driving a guitar cab. Ultra poweramp sim ON, cab sims OFF. For me, that was the magic formula!

Actually, I did. I tried it with a couple different power amps we had from the PA. Didn't like it as much as the Boogie 2:90 - that's a great sounding power amp.

 

[hippietim]

Tim,
don't ever let john (jgcable) see this post. :lol This is all the fuel he needs.

No worries, John spent forever telling us all how great his Boss GT-6 rig sounded and how he was blowing away guys with Boogies, Marshalls, etc. I think we're fine :lol

 

[scotts]

Absolutely spot on
I've always maintained that I want a 'Live' tone when playing live ... strange as that might sound.
...mainly due to the rest of the band blattering away...

Live tone being somewhat defined as: "...not really what I would like to hear/present/experience, but what I am forced to present..."

That's such a shame... and it is the reality for a lot of folks. If we aren't able to surround ourselves with sensitive players that are able to play with dynamics, manage their frequencies and volumes, and place themselves properly in the mix we have to dumb down our presentations to compensate. What a sorry state of affairs for a lot of players.

An Axe using friend in my town complains about this to me. He has two sets of all his patches - live and studio. We were listening to his live patches and I found them to be extremely rough and too stark for my tastes. They are definately not the way he would like to present his sound live. He says that due to the sonic cacophony he deals with onstage they have to be set that way to cut through the mix. He and I are good friends and he is a good player. I suggested he join a better band.

He told me (in all friendliness!) that I am a spoiled b**ch that gets to spend 90% of my live performance time in bass and organ trios.

Spoiled yes... b**ch, not so much...