Axe-Fx For The Recording Musician

[Dave Merrill]

Any chance @FractalAudio could step in here?

 

[rhummellh]

Agree, it would great if there was some way to leave it up, maybe with a simple disclaimer that it's only accurate as of May 25. I haven't been recording, but i almost certainly will be, and it's a great resource I'll be sad to have missed.

Was it downloadable?
If so does anyone have a copy?

 

[Peavey Herman]

Thanks! Immediate DL when I'm back at my PC.

 

[KJ7]

Any chance @FractalAudio could step in here?

hero ! Thanks !

 

[crdark]

I still can't believe that the 6th generation of a 3k unit is such a struggle to set up for something that has been an easy task for a million outboard devices for the last 50 years. Such a failed design and it almost has an arrogant taste to it, making the Axe-Fx work only on 48khz and making it not work conveniently for a home studio setup (which is what 90% of users have).

Way to go, Fractal Audio........ -_-

Then get a better modeller/profiler … oh, wait …

 

[KJ7]

Hey @GlennO,

I saw that you suggested solution #4 for reamping on a mac if the audio interface lacks spdif in/out, however on the schematics you only but the analog out, then if you want to record a dry stereo signal, how this would be done? I only own a clarett 2pre with optical out I used a converter to make spdif out from the axe to the audio interfac ebut it's not very conveniant to have a converter always plugged in I'd rather have either an audio interface with spdifs in/out or check your solution #4 but How is the latency compared ti spdif? I'm sorry to bring this up but I tried my best taking old answers and think but it's still blurry to me!

Cheers!

 

[Thenewexhibit]

I’m going to humbly disagree with Ricardo here. The reamping tutorial in the post at the top of this thread instructs you to record your DI in stereo, not mono. That’s what I generally recommend.

That’s because AxeFX presets almost always have the amp block set to summed stereo input. While your guitar is a mono instrument, the AxeFX input sends a stereo representation of that mono input into the grid, with the lleft duplicated into the right.

If you simply record a mono DI and send it to the AxeFX when reamping, it won’t sound the same as when you’re playing your guitar because you’re only sending one channel instead of two to the amp block.

The simplest way to solve this problem is to record your DI in stereo. That way the preset will sound the same as your guitar. However, if you really want to record your DI in mono, you can compensate for this issue by boosting the DI by 6dB in your DAW when reamping, or routing the mono DI to two usb channels.

So, here’s something that came to mind upon rereading this again. You mentioned that the Axe iii input sends a stereo representation of the mono guitar into the grid because most of the presets are summed L+R in the amp block. Does this happen at the physical input where you plug the guitar in?
If you record a mono DI from the Axe iii vias USB, then send it back through the Input 1 block, would that essentially be the same as a guitar getting plugged straight in and then it seeing a stereo representation of that? Or does using a mono DI somehow bypass that process when you send it back through Input 1 for reamping?

 

[Forever Again]

The reamping tutorial in the post at the top of this thread instructs you to record your DI in stereo, not mono. That’s what I generally recommend.

That’s because AxeFX presets almost always have the amp block set to summed stereo input. While your guitar is a mono instrument, the AxeFX input sends a stereo representation of that mono input into the grid, with the lleft duplicated into the right.

If you simply record a mono DI and send it to the AxeFX when reamping, it won’t sound the same as when you’re playing your guitar because you’re only sending one channel instead of two to the amp block.

The simplest way to solve this problem is to record your DI in stereo. That way the preset will sound the same as your guitar. However, if you really want to record your DI in mono, you can compensate for this issue by boosting the DI by 6dB in your DAW when reamping, or routing the mono DI to two usb channels.

I find this interesting as I always record my DIs mono as that's what's stated in the user guide.

However, the user guide does state to "Change the output of your “DI” track to Axe-Fx III Output 5/6. Set its output level to –6.0 dB." I keep my DI fader at 0 dB because it doesn't sound right when mono and lowered to -6.0 dB.

I'm going to need to give stereo DI'ing a whirl.

 

[Duncan Rigby]

I use StudioOne as my DAW, I set the AxeFx3 as an external midi device then when I re-amp I use DAW track automation to the AxeFx3 to change Presets,Scenes,AMP channels and bypass, and I also set a few External controllers to CC values for variable values then use that external controller to block parameters (e.g. Wah Pedal, Delay hold) . So re-Amping can be done with automated performance.
All good fun.

I record a guitar DI and FX Chain Wet as a guide, I normalise/gainstage and edit the DI , then add automation for the AxeFx3 and re-amp it.

 

[mr_fender]

If you change the level of the DI, your reamps will no longer be at the same input level going into the preset. Your tone will be noticeably different. There's no need to edit the DI at all if you're going to use it for reamping via USB or SPDIF.

For example, say you capture a DI at -25 dBFS peak level while recording a clean tone through a Deluxe Reverb model. If you normalize that DI up to 0 dBFS peak, then your reamps will be getting 25 dB of boost going into the Deluxe Reverb model and it will be very overdriven instead of clean.

 

[mr_fender]

So, here’s something that came to mind upon rereading this again. You mentioned that the Axe iii input sends a stereo representation of the mono guitar into the grid because most of the presets are summed L+R in the amp block. Does this happen at the physical input where you plug the guitar in?
If you record a mono DI from the Axe iii vias USB, then send it back through the Input 1 block, would that essentially be the same as a guitar getting plugged straight in and then it seeing a stereo representation of that? Or does using a mono DI somehow bypass that process when you send it back through Input 1 for reamping?

The duplication of the mono instrument signal to both channels happens after the input A/D conversion and before the grid. When you record a DI from Input 1 via USB, it comes from that point before the grid, not from the IN 1 block. No blocks are needed at all to record a DI.

When you send a DI back to Input 1, it goes to the IN block input. You have to send the signal to both channels via USB. If you send the DI back on only 1 channel (USB Output 5 or 6 on the Axe III or FM9, USB Outputs 2 or 3 on the FM3) the In 1 block will only receive 1 channel and the other will be silent.

 

[mr_fender]

However, the user guide does state to "Change the output of your “DI” track to Axe-Fx III Output 5/6. Set its output level to –6.0 dB." I keep my DI fader at 0 dB because it doesn't sound right when mono and lowered to -6.0 dB.

Unfortunately, the manual is not correct. You should not need to reduce the level of the DI signal. In many cases you need to boost it instead.

The problem with the reamping level difference is it can depend on the pan law your DAW is using. You'll get different results sending a mono track to a stereo bus or output from different DAWs. Reaper and Cakewalk for example use a 0 dB pan law so sending a mono DI to a stereo output will result in the full mono signal going to both channels. Logic, ProTools, and Cubase on the other hand use a constant power -3 dB pan law. So sending a mono DI to a stereo output in those will result in both channels getting a copy of the mono track at -3 dB lower. Reamping that would result in the amp block getting -6 dB less signal total at default settings.

By recording and sending back a stereo DI, you eliminate the pan law variable since sending a centered stereo track always results in the left channel getting full left input and right channel getting full right input. That method works for all DAWs and all pan law settings. The downside is it costs a little more storage and memory space for the stereo DI vs mono.

You certainly can use a mono DI and send it back, however you may need to compensate by boosting the level of the DI depending on the pan law used by your DAW.

 

[Forever Again]

The problem with the reamping level difference is it can depend on the pan law your DAW is using. You'll get different results sending a mono track to a stereo bus or output from different DAWs. Reaper and Cakewalk for example use a 0 dB pan law so sending a mono DI to a stereo output will result in the full mono signal going to both channels. Logic, ProTools, and Cubase on the other hand use a constant power -3 dB pan law. So sending a mono DI to a stereo output in those will result in both channels getting a copy of the mono track at -3 dB lower. Reamping that would result in the amp block getting -6 dB less signal total at default settings.

By recording and sending back a stereo DI, you eliminate the pan law variable since sending a centered stereo track always results in the left channel getting full left input and right channel getting full right input. That method works for all DAWs and all pan law settings. The downside is it costs a little more storage and memory space for the stereo DI vs mono.

Thank you for this explanation. That’s very helpful. Is there an optimal DI level to record the DI to tape? I keep the processed guitar around -9dB.

I ask because I prefer to adjust my performance on the DI track then reamp. However, that DI track is so small that even zooming to the max in Logic at times makes that process challenging.

I’m sure it ties into how hot the guitar is too. I have one where the DI tracks around -28dB, while the other guitar is around -20dB. There’s clearly a noticeable difference between those two waveforms. Maybe I just need to adjust the height of the pickups on my one guitar.

 

[mr_fender]

The DI level is unity gain from the instrument input. If you boost or normalize that level, your reamps will no longer be at the same input level. If you're reamping via USB or SPDIF, leave the DI level as is. Pickup output level varies a ton depending on the type and placement. If you're satisfied with the tone you get from your guitars, I wouldn't worry about it. Raising the pickups could raise the guitar's output level, but that will also change how you're driving the virtual amps and drives in your presets.

 

[Bakerman]

So sending a mono DI to a stereo output in those will result in both channels getting a copy of the mono track at -3 dB lower. Reamping that would result in the amp block getting -6 dB less signal total at default settings.

It would be -3 dB in that example, not -6 dB.

(The -3's shouldn't be added just because Sum L+R involves two channels. Like any time the left & right signals are identical at the amp block input, the input select setting is actually irrelevant as (L+R)/2 = L = R. )

By recording and sending back a stereo DI, you eliminate the pan law variable since sending a centered stereo track always results in the left channel getting full left input and right channel getting full right input. That method works for all DAWs and all pan law settings.

Reaper will apply its global pan law to stereo and mono clips unless disabled for the track, but the default setting is 0 dB. It looks like Logic has an option to apply pan law to stereo tracks, or not. Not sure about other DAWs, but certainly not 'all DAWs and all pan law settings' and something to stay aware of IMO.

 

[mr_fender]

Good catch.

I still can't figure out why they recommend reducing the DI level in the manual instructions though. I can't really think of a situation where you would need to reduce the DI level. I don't think I've come across a pan law where the center level is boosted. Ableton uses a +3 dB constant power pan law that boosts the level as you pan outward from center instead of cutting towards and at center, but the net difference is the same as the -3 dB law used in other DAWs. Ableton is at 0 dB at center instead of -3 dB at center like ProTools. Looks like Logic's default -3dB compensated law also works like Ableton's pan law, but with a different name.

 

[JJDon]

Just came across this thread and hoping someone could help me out. I referenced the manual above and it looks like I fall into Configuration 5, but I'm not sure?

Here's my setup. I currently use my Scarlett 18i20 as my audio interface with my FM9 as inputs 3+4 in stereo to my Studio One DAW. This is very close to how my setup looks (just sub the Axe-FX II for the FM9). I have my 2 SPDIF cables going out/in between the FM9 and Scarlett 18i20 and then two XLR cables from the FM9's Out 1 to Inputs 3+4 of the Scarlett.




It looks like I did this set correctly, but from here I get lost (correct me if I'm wrong though). How do I go about setting SPDIF in Focusrite Control and then also in Studio One? And in FM9 Edit, how do I go about setting up Setup>Audio to use SPDIF? And also, how do I set my current preset in the FM9 to record both the regular signal and clean DI signal? Reading the manual above, it looks like he said to connect directly to my audio interface instead of the FM9, but that seems contrary to the way I saw someone else do it which is where I got the picture above from?

 

[Aleister666]

Did the configurations get removed from this post or am I just dumb? I was brought here from another post but can’t seem to find the link for the actual recording guide. All I see are links to a broken video about reamping, the link for Axe Capture and then two links involving latency issues. I was trying to find all the different configurations. Specifically #2. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[David Houck]

There is a note in the original post that says "[Deleted. Sorry, I'm no longer able to maintain the recording guide.]"

 

[Dave Merrill]

I have GlennO's "Axe-FX For the Recording Musician" saved as a PDF. I think others have shared that here as well.

Ideally it'd be in the wiki.

However, since it's not being updated, it may gradually rust into irrelevance, even misinformation.

Also, FWIW, GlennO actively removed it from his original post, which seems like a pretty clear indication he didn't want it to be publicly shared any more. Or maybe just that he didn't want to be a part of it, which is clearly true.