"Real amps just have something modelers can't replicate"

J

jephjacques

Inspired
Just for shits and giggles, hooked up my Revv Generator 100p to A/B it with the AxeFX version. Same IR, same SIC, same settings all around. And they sound identical. The controls interact the same way. I know this is Kind Of The Whole Point Of The AxeFX but it still feels magical to see it happen right in front of me.
 
Did the same thing with my 5153 and Waza TAE a couple years ago. I should try again since all these updates, but even then it wasn't a significant difference. In a blind test I wouldn't have been able to guess. Still, I like my amp, and Axe FX can add more channels to it (like an actual clean sound hah).

Maybe it would be more difficult to match something like a tweed 5e3 cranked or something?
 
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“Real amps just have something modelers can't replicate"​


This overused and abused statement emanates largely from the mouths of people who made up their minds going in that they will NEVER let go of their emotional bond with their traditional amps. No matter what happens in the modeling world, they will NEVER accept it. So they think up objections that are vague enough to escape debunking. Press them for specifics and they can’t come up with anything.

See also: “Sounds digital.”
 
I still have my tube amp (1984/1985 Boogie Mark IIC+ and Mesa metal grill 4x12 with the original 4 EVM12L’s) and I haven’t played through my Mark IIC+ since December (when I bought my Axe FX 3).

That’s how impressive the Axe FX 3 is. Where I was playing maybe 1-2 hours a week, I’m now playing 1-2 hours a day, and about 3-4 hours on weekends. Super inspired every time I plug into it.

I’m usually a Boogie guy but lately I’ve been messing around non stop with the Marshall Plexi’s, JCM 800, and FAS Stealth. So good!
 
mr_fender said:
Many a tube amp has been sold off because of Fractal Audio... mine included.
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Raise Hand GIF by Nick Jonas
 
Frodebro said:

“Real amps just have something modelers can't replicate"​


This overused and abused statement emanates largely from the mouths of people who made up their minds going in that they will NEVER let go of their emotional bond with their traditional amps. No matter what happens in the modeling world, they will NEVER accept it. So they think up objections that are vague enough to escape debunking. Press them for specifics and they can’t come up with anything.

See also: “Sounds digital.”
Click to expand...
This really depends on the modeler.

I was in that camp for years, I tried the offerings from Boss, Line 6, Avid (the eleven rack is not all that bad actually), even (cough) the Behringer V-Amp pro and nothing could top my Mesa Boogies cranked through a 4x12 or two.

That all changed when I made the move to Fractal last year. At first I thought it was just a ‘honeymoon phase’ and the ‘newness’ would probably fade away. Nope, it just keeps getting better with every FW release.

The only amp that I do miss a bit now and then is my Voodoo Amps Platinum modded Mesa Roadster. There really is something special with that amp, but it’s not because it’s ‘analog’ vs digital. It just sounds great and is a joy to play, just like my AxeFXIII.
 
Domct203 said:
This really depends on the modeler.
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Obviously yes, I still have my GSP21 Legend that I bought in 1994. It checks all the boxes for why modeling isn’t good enough. But that’s 30 year old tech. For the “Death before digital” crowd, however, there is no difference between that Digitech and an AxeFX3 Because in their mind, they’re all the same. Just like when Fender released the Tonemaster amps, people were screaming that they were overpriced because you can get a Mustang GTX for $300.
 
My amigo came over a few weeks back, bringing his ‘96 Triple Rectifier with him. We did a days worth of comparing my AxeFx3 turbo and my “Recto Gurk” patch, to his venerable Triple Rec.
We both thought the AxeFx was ~90%+ of the
Triple Rec. It was an enlightening session.
 
Frodebro said:

“Real amps just have something modelers can't replicate"​


This overused and abused statement emanates largely from the mouths of people who made up their minds going in that they will NEVER let go of their emotional bond with their traditional amps. No matter what happens in the modeling world, they will NEVER accept it. So they think up objections that are vague enough to escape debunking. Press them for specifics and they can’t come up with anything.

See also: “Sounds digital.”
Click to expand...
Can't resist momentarily coming out of posting sabatical:

Kinda, sorta agree, ..., but, I still can't seem to get around these old questions to myself:

1. If there are not material differences, how is it that so many past, recent, (+probably future) Axefx FW releases can offer so much regular significant modelling accuracy improvement, with so many experienced users clearly hearing material differences, and then (in new FW threads) applauding (+ verifying by some who know the real amps well) the progression / evolution toward 100% bang on? - My logic tells me there can be only 1 answer: "there were still material differences", and, "there likely still are material differences" (reminding myself that there've been dozens of times over the past 15y we said: "can't get much more accurate than this!", only to have a new release drop that raises the accuracy bar yet again with clear audible / feelable differences).

2. How could the physical tube amp market thrive as it has been (particularly new modern amps with embedded tech (ie Revv / 2Notes) popular with new younger players) if modelled representations of those same amps are completely accurate. Again: only one set of answers adds up: the market for those physical amps would not thrive if modelling was totally accurate - they do survive because: "there are still material differences for enough players".

I know, I'm not using my ears, just whats between them - sorry, I think that counts too.

(from the mouth of a basement hacker who started with modelling/FR many years ago, and, despite no lack of trying or $ spent, never got real amp/cabs (or even other modellers for that matter), to sound as good to my ear as my Axefx (even compensating for AITR room by routing Axfx thru physical cabs and/or physical tube amps into IRs ... (a somewhat reversed tube amp snob pov, but nonetheless, an "I logically conclude there are still differences imo" pov))
 
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I've no idea of how far ahead of the competition Fractal are nowadays. Way back in 2016 they were far enough ahead that it became the path I chose. Back then there were a few amps where I was happy that the models were really close, and a few others where it was close enough that I could live with it. But there was a lot of deep diving involved, and "edge of breakup" was a little hit and miss.

When Cygnus was released in 2021 real amps became not quite pointless for me, but of limited value, in that I only really need them for long enough to make Fractal do the same thing. And of course IRs have improved dramatically over the same period.

Since then everything else has moved on to replicate all the effects I've ever loved, and to get getting the cab sound I'm looking for ever more easily. Real amps do have things that modellers can't replicate, but they are more to do with looks, smell and physical presence in the room than making musical noises.

Cannot quite believe how much things have moved on over 8 years, but particularly the last 5. Not sure I've contributed all that much to the journey (aside from nagging for the Klon endlessly), but it has been enlightening to be along for the ride.

Abundant thanks to Cliff and team, as a passion that's helpful to lots of others, you have delivered in spades.

Liam
 
Nothing is for everybody. I kinda wish people would stop inferring there is something wrong with a person that prefers amps, and just thinks they sound better. I say that as much as I kinda wish people who play only traditional amplification would stop inferring that there is something wrong with people who play modelers. I love my Fractal gear, and I love my amps. Not selling one for the other.
 
petruccirocks02 said:
I still have my tube amp (1984/1985 Boogie Mark IIC+ and Mesa metal grill 4x12 with the original 4 EVM12L’s) and I haven’t played through my Mark IIC+ since December (when I bought my Axe FX 3).

That’s how impressive the Axe FX 3 is. Where I was playing maybe 1-2 hours a week, I’m now playing 1-2 hours a day, and about 3-4 hours on weekends. Super inspired every time I plug into it.

I’m usually a Boogie guy but lately I’ve been messing around non stop with the Marshall Plexi’s, JCM 800, and FAS Stealth. So good!
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Same. I play an hour and a half a day ever since I bought my AFX3 mk2. Rotate 5 guitars and give each guitar 2 days in the rotation, rinse, repeat. They all sound different to me and have their strengths/weaknesses, and I finally can hear differences in pickup types. It's amazing!!
 
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