Cutting Thru The Mix

P

PSea

Experienced
im feeling some of my higher gain presets arent cutting through the mix very well. wondering what i should tweak to improve it. all presets already incorporate hi/lo cuts.

any suggestions?
 
hi chris, only problem is i noticed my live tones were already leaning towards the trebly side. ive actually started reducing some of my low cuts as of practice last night.

this really bugs the crap out of me cuz i often hear other live bar bands where the guitar is "hiding" behind the gain...and i always point it out. ...now, im feeling like im that guy!

im also wondering if creating my tones w 2 EV's facing me is a mistake since people in front of the stage are only hearing one of those speakers (the other is used as my monitor in front of me). when i walked out in front of the stage....i learned my presets need a lot of tweaking. just not sure where to begin. im definitely creating the presets at louder volumes.
 
All in the mids. And use less gain. I learned it pretty hard back in the 90's. I had a full refrigerator rack with a quad preamp all the fixin's, someone auditioned for another guitarist in the band and had a Slash half stack, and he handed me my lunch. I couldn't get my rig loud enough. No matter what I did, couldn't hear me at all.
 
PSea said:
im feeling some of my higher gain presets arent cutting through the mix very well. wondering what i should tweak to improve it. all presets already incorporate hi/lo cuts.

any suggestions?
Click to expand...
What are you running IR wise? IMO some 4x12 IR's that are a 57/121 mixes seem scooped to me. I moved to 2x12 IR's. They seem more direct and clear with no scoopiness, as a real 2x12 would.
Idk, food for thought.
 
I play in a 5-piece cover band with another guitarist who is using a Les Paul and Fender Blues Junior. So it's a dense mix. I've been using modelers for the last 7 years - first Helix, then Quad Cortex the last two years, now an FM9 will get its first gig this Friday. Feedback from the audience has always been they can't hear me, only the drums and that Blues Junior. I'm typically using a Powercab112+ in Flat/Raw mode - so it's essentially a powered 1x12 guitar cabinet. Works pretty good that way and compares well with my Fender amps using Celestion speakers (that .

What I think is happening is all related to gain staging and stage volume. I tend to keep my stage volume down, doing my part to not cause audience hearing damage, and so the bar tenders can hear their orders. So that's probably part of why I disappear in the mix, I'm just not loud enough.

But possibly another reason is gain staging. I set my preset levels so I'm mostly sending 0dB output levels on my clean, crunch and distortion scenes/patches. Then I set my stage amp to the level needed for the room. What I think happens is the clean tone is OK, but as soon as I add some dirt, the compression takes over and makes my guitar disappear in the mix.

So I'm going to try something new with the FM9 in this first gig. I'm setting my clean level at -3dB on the preset output meters. Then I'm going to set my crunch and distortion patches so that when I turn my guitar volume down enough that the tone cleans up, I'm getting the same -3dB on the preset output - clean is matched to clean in the patch/scene.

Now I'm hoping that when I add the dirt, the overall level will go up instead of down and will cut through the mix better. I'm also aware that 700-1000 Hz mid boost will help with the mix, and am aware of preamp vs. power amp distortion and sag, etc. I'm taking that into consideration too.

Really looking forward to giving this new (to me) FM9 a ride.
 
I found that I had to boost my volume on crunch scenes relative to cleaner tones for a couple of reasons.
1. It's compressed relative to lower gain.
2. When I'm using a crunch scene, the rest of the band gets more energetic and louder.
 
Goonie said:
What are you running IR wise? IMO some 4x12 IR's that are a 57/121 mixes seem scooped to me. I moved to 2x12 IR's. They seem more direct and clear with no scoopiness, as a real 2x12 would.
Idk, food for thought.
Click to expand...
honestly, i dont have favorites yet and couldnt tell you. i know i use leon todd's cab for quite a few.

perhaps i need to spend more time in the GoT presets and see how they work.

appreciate the input.
 
Jim Amsden said:
I play in a 5-piece cover band with another guitarist who is using a Les Paul and Fender Blues Junior. So it's a dense mix. I've been using modelers for the last 7 years - first Helix, then Quad Cortex the last two years, now an FM9 will get its first gig this Friday. Feedback from the audience has always been they can't hear me, only the drums and that Blues Junior. I'm typically using a Powercab112+ in Flat/Raw mode - so it's essentially a powered 1x12 guitar cabinet. Works pretty good that way and compares well with my Fender amps using Celestion speakers (that .

What I think is happening is all related to gain staging and stage volume. I tend to keep my stage volume down, doing my part to not cause audience hearing damage, and so the bar tenders can hear their orders. So that's probably part of why I disappear in the mix, I'm just not loud enough.

But possibly another reason is gain staging. I set my preset levels so I'm mostly sending 0dB output levels on my clean, crunch and distortion scenes/patches. Then I set my stage amp to the level needed for the room. What I think happens is the clean tone is OK, but as soon as I add some dirt, the compression takes over and makes my guitar disappear in the mix.

So I'm going to try something new with the FM9 in this first gig. I'm setting my clean level at -3dB on the preset output meters. Then I'm going to set my crunch and distortion patches so that when I turn my guitar volume down enough that the tone cleans up, I'm getting the same -3dB on the preset output - clean is matched to clean in the patch/scene.

Now I'm hoping that when I add the dirt, the overall level will go up instead of down and will cut through the mix better. I'm also aware that 700-1000 Hz mid boost will help with the mix, and am aware of preamp vs. power amp distortion and sag, etc. I'm taking that into consideration too.

Really looking forward to giving this new (to me) FM9 a ride.
Click to expand...
good luck and let us know how it goes. my 1 and only gig w the fm9 was last month. one thing i recommend, make sure yoi know how ro navigate to your output eq's. it helped me tame my highs (was an outside gig).
 
That treble / midrange that annoys your ears when your guitar tone is on it's own? Yeah thats the frequencies that will cut through a mix, especially for high gain things. It should sound like bacon grease sizzling in a pan. Outside of that, boosting the upper mids, 2-5k somewhere etc can help. Also cut your lows.

If you need a solid reference for "cutting" tones that work well with high gain, I always reference Pete Thorn's Marshall style tones. Everyone always comments how bright his mix is, I always comment that it cuts through without ever ripping ear drums apart.
 
RoshRoslin said:
If you need a solid reference for "cutting" tones that work well with high gain, I always reference Pete Thorn's Marshall style tones. Everyone always comments how bright his mix is, I always comment that it cuts through without ever ripping ear drums apart.
Click to expand...
Hi Rosh! Would you mind linking some of your go-to videos?
 
Something to consider for full band mix that i rarely see mentioned is adjusting the OTHER instruments too. Its often not enough to keep tweaking a single instrument to force it through, consider how the other instruments are EQ'd and that they may need to be addressed to make the whole sound better.

As others have said, midrange is where the guitar lives. If you suck it out it will get lost. If you think your tone is too shrill when heard on its own then it will likely sound better in the mix.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom