Fender Tone Master Pro....

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Nsurround said:
"external virtual hardware knob controller pedal"
I know, it was the best description I could think of at the time. Essentially it would be an external knob controller in a similar size configuration as a larger guitar pedal. The virtual part is that the knobs could tweak selected parameters of any of the blocks wanted in the preset. To keep the number of knobs down to 5 or so you might have buttons to toggle thru the blocks that you set up to tweak certain parameters on that are in the preset. Each block would then show up when selected on the units display and each knobs scribble display would show what parameter you could tweak from where it was initially set. That was the basic idea. Alternatively, you could have an external unit similar to a morningstar mc6 or mc8 (size wise) but with 5 knobs on top of the display and 5 below (similar idea to the current performance pages). You would program this as you would the internal performance page(s) and have two buttons to toggle back and forth thru the page(s). I might be off the wall here but thought that a simple external knob controller could be very useful in a live situation to make changes to amp/cab/fx settings similar to real amps and pedals.
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Interesting. How would that differ from the encoders that the fxiii/fm9 already have? Would it augment them, somehow? Or replace them?
 
Yeah, I think that is the trick as I am not sure how those encoders would play with an external unit doing essentially the same thing in the performance page idea. But with the virtual knob controller idea it might replace them or augment them. In any case, I think the idea is that you would program or apply a certain parameter to the external interface based on the block that uses it in your preset. So the virtual pedal turns into a reverb pedal or a delay or drive pedal etc. depending on what you want quick access too.
 
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Nsurround said:
"external virtual hardware knob controller pedal"
I know, it was the best description I could think of at the time. Essentially it would be an external knob controller in a similar size configuration as a larger guitar pedal. The virtual part is that the knobs could tweak selected parameters of any of the blocks wanted in the preset. To keep the number of knobs down to 5 or so you might have buttons to toggle thru the blocks that you set up to tweak certain parameters on that are in the preset. Each block would then show up when selected on the units display and each knobs scribble display would show what parameter you could tweak from where it was initially set. That was the basic idea. Alternatively, you could have an external unit similar to a morningstar mc6 or mc8 (size wise) but with 5 knobs on top of the display and 5 below (similar idea to the current performance pages). You would program this as you would the internal performance page(s) and have two buttons to toggle back and forth thru the page(s). I might be off the wall here but thought that a simple external knob controller could be very useful in a live situation to make changes to amp/cab/fx settings similar to real amps and pedals.
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I wonder how close you could get to that with a MIDI controller.
 
marsonic said:
I wonder how close you could get to that with a MIDI controller.
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Currently you could have up to a 16 knob midi controller. But there are issues with using such a setup as was posted initially by Iaxu:

"The issue is that there are very, very stupid limitations for MIDI knob control on Fractal's current gen devices. The modifier system prevents using anything but the MIDI controller for anything attached to modifiers. Axe-Edit or Fractal front panel can no longer adjust those parameters when a modifier is attached and there's no good way to enable/disable them all, you need to detach them one by one.

There is no technical reason why it has to be this way. It is possible to use all of these together, Fractal's own MIDI mapping system just doesn't support it. MIDI -> Fractal Sysex is capable of controlling it all like you were using Axe-Edit or the front panel, but since Fractal does not publish Sysex documentation for the current gen devices, it is a lot of reverse engineering and complication. You need a middleman MIDI -> Sysex translation app, which doesn't really exist.

16 external controllers is also not a lot. You can use over half of those on basic amp block controls alone.

In short, there is no good way to expand the knob control on Fractal systems atm. The modifier system does not work well for this at all."

There are also no midi controllers that I know of that would really display the values of where the knob is or any display at all. That being said, after looking at many midi controllers currently available there is one from Faderfox that might be ok. There is also the Fracpad III editor that works with a IOS or Android tablets. It essentially tries to duplicate what you can do with the FM editor on a tablet. It can work ok but I was really thinking more in line with what Fractal could produce as an accessory product similar to their external footswitch controllers that could be useful to a gigging musician and or just for easier home use etc. A hardware pedal size knob controller that can select blocks in a preset and then tweak or change the the current values of pre-selected parameters of selected block (think performance page operation) to me would be very cool. The device could be on a stand or table and not on the floor like the FM units would normally be. I may draw up an illustration of what it might look like and operate just for fun.

Faderfox Youtube Demo of UC4 with FM3

Faderfox UC4 Midi Controller
 
rog said:
Steve Sterlacci is making some really good comparison videos with it, the first was with the Helix, this one is with the QC. It really shows what I would consider shortcomings of the TMP - one being that, compared with the QC, the TMP seems to have a laggy touchscreen. I don't really fancy a touchscreen, but if I had to have one, the QC one looks a lot more responsive.

I really do prefer the physical encoders under the screen, though. And I say that thinking that both QC and TMP have about the best compromise with their rotary switches, but right now, I think only Fractal and Helix are doing it right, with scribble strips and dedicated encoders under the screen.

Really hoping he does the TMP and Fractal, next.

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ok great vid..i dont want either of them.lol....
 
Nsurround said:
Yeah, I thought that Steve's comparison was really good. the thing that stands out for me though is that the TMP just came out and the QC has gone thru a number of updates and versions. Assume(?) that Fender will do the same for some of the TMP initial short comings. It is still kind of early to see how this all shakes out. Would really love to have Fractal produce an external virtual hardware knob controller pedal. Essentially would have 5-10 knobs that would work similar to the 'performance page' setup on the FM units. However the Fracpad III editor for IOS and Android may work for now. It does work with the performance pages.
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i agree... the cool thing is the tmp is avail in gc everywhere and likely will be in 6 months or a year so no rush to buy and just waiting a while is easy. Not like qc or fractal where its harder to get it and waitlists exist...there will never be a waitlist for the tmp
 
Okay, just for fun and laughs here is a representation of my Virtual FM Knob Controller. Its just a basic concept idea. Lots of ways to re-configure depending on what is wanted. Trying to keep it simple as possible but still be useful. After looking at the Fracpad III I could see that the parameter increment values do follow the main FM unit. I also realized that the programmable parameters for the preset blocks available is somewhat limited but the main ones are there. But for instance on the reverb block depending on what reverb is chosen there is no ability currently to add the Pre-Delay Time to a preset performance page. Which is something I would think is rather important in the Pre Delay parameters etc. In any case my concept is as below:virtual_knob_controller.png
 
i think the price is high for an entry unit with not alot of content baked into it yet and i hear some wierd alliasing in the mid/highend area when the tone fades out.
 
BINKEY1 said:
DELETED SORRY....while the pics on the screen are cool there is alot of wasted space as well.
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I agree with you - I far prefer the icons of the GC, Helix, and Fractal. The picture representations just looks a little cheesy to me.

But if someone else does like it, that's ok. They have the same right to an opinion that we do. :)
 
ruso said:
Do you own one?
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no but in every video or sound clip i have heard i hear it. I heard it in my helix when i had it too..but never heard it in the gt1000 i had for 6 months..maybe its the input impedence? I know some units have the ability to change the input impedence...i dont think the fm9t has that option because the fm3 doesnt.
 
BINKEY1 said:
i think the price is high for an entry unit with not alot of content baked into it yet and i hear some wierd alliasing in the mid/highend area when the tone fades out.
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I own one and have never noticed that. I did however immediately go to the mixer section and muted the Aux inputs. This is a known issue that Fender is aware of and should be handled on the next FW update.
 
BINKEY1 said:
i think the price is high for an entry unit with not alot of content baked into it yet and i hear some wierd alliasing in the mid/highend area when the tone fades out.
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I hear that "weird aliasing" as well. It sounds like static white noise behind the notes as the signal dies down. You can hear it really clearly in this comparison:

 
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It's interesting seeing peoples thoughts, here and on other sites, on the TMP compared to Fractal and other modelers. I think my general take away is the general TMP hardware and UI design are very good, amp and effects algorithms are a very limited mixed bag with some matching the best available, others not. Interesting unit that may get a lot better with firmware updates, but not close to ready to replace my Fractal gear.

With that said, I would love to see Fractal address its Achilles' heel, the onboard UI. The Edit apps are great, but the onboard UI is not its strong suit and I avoid using it except for minor changes. Fractal already has the algorithms and everything else. Packaging those algorithms and tech in a TMP/QC/Helix like package would be mind blowing IMO.
 
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