Are new amps really needed?

[laxu]

= EGNATER REBEL 20

I hope this little beast makes it way back once, but this time having the "blend" feature

Why? It's an alright sounding Marshall style amp and even its manual says the powertube blend feature is subtle. You can do what it does with any Fractal amp model by changing the powertube type from the advanced settings. The blending of the two is pretty irrelevant but if you reeeally want to do it, just use two amp blocks with different settings. That will get you more mileage!

I think so. While I love everything that's there, there's a big gaping hole with regards to the Victory amp lineup (Kraken, Copper, Sheriff, Duchess, Jack etc). Mezzabarba MZero would be nice and my personal favourite Class A amp, the Laney Lionheart (50w or 20w, I don't mind). Would absolutely love the Laney to appear in a FW update one day.

Did you know you can easily replicate the Victory Copper already? Use the Morgan AC-20 Deluxe 12AX7 model, that is very similar to the Copper. In fact I was able to dial it to sound identical to the Copper I owned. Pair it with a cab with Alnico Blues or Golds, sounds great!

The Sheriff is nothing more than another Marshall derived amp and the Kraken, well I could see it being a bit different but nothing you couldn't achieve out of various high gain amps already.

There's a lot of real amps out there with good feature sets that make them worth buying over something else but they don't need to be represented in the virtual realm because they don't sound unique enough that they would actually add anything to the already vast capabilities of our Fractals.

 

[Jonathan Thomas]

Why? It's an alright sounding Marshall style amp and even its manual says the powertube blend feature is subtle. You can do what it does with any Fractal amp model by changing the powertube type from the advanced settings. The blending of the two is pretty irrelevant but if you reeeally want to do it, just use two amp blocks with different settings. That will get you more mileage!


Did you know you can easily replicate the Victory Copper already? Use the Morgan AC-20 Deluxe 12AX7 model, that is very similar to the Copper. In fact I was able to dial it to sound identical to the Copper I owned. Pair it with a cab with Alnico Blues or Golds, sounds great!

The Sheriff is nothing more than another Marshall derived amp and the Kraken, well I could see it being a bit different but nothing you couldn't achieve out of various high gain amps already.

There's a lot of real amps out there with good feature sets that make them worth buying over something else but they don't need to be represented in the virtual realm because they don't sound unique enough that they would actually add anything to the already vast capabilities of our Fractals.

I have tried the Morgan and haven't matched my recording of my old Copper. I don't disagree that some of their amps might be achievable with other algorithms, but there's a lot of crossover already in there that I don't see the issue with adding more. The Kraken is more unique and perhaps definitely worth a look.

 

[Chromatizm]

Why? It's an alright sounding Marshall style amp and even its manual says the powertube blend feature is subtle.

Sentimental reasons - first. I owned one for 10 years Set it for sale the next day FM3 arrived and I've spent a few hours with it. But I still love that little beast!
Subtle but interesting and not possible on FM3 I use - second

In general, I feel like Egnater's work should be a little more appreciated around here - he was basically "the analog Cliff", allowing you to get different flavors in one package by switching preamp modules and "poweramp" tubes

 

[laxu]

Sentimental reasons - first. I owned one for 10 years Set it for sale the next day FM3 arrived and I've spent a few hours with it. But I still love that little beast!
Subtle but interesting and not possible on FM3 I use - second

In general, I feel like Egnater's work should be a little more appreciated around here - he was basically "the analog Cliff", allowing you to get different flavors in one package by switching preamp modules and "poweramp" tubes

Bruce Egnater is a legend for sure. I had the Egnater Tourmaster head back in the day and feel like it was way ahead of its time with very versatile power scaling, multiple near identical channels etc.

I think Bruce is now working on some 4 channel rack preamp?

 

[Chromatizm]

I think Bruce is now working on some 4 channel rack preamp?

Probably this:

This preamp does it all. Ch1 is very pedal friendly, but can breakup if pushed. Ch2 has a nice mid gain that's full and round and very inspiring. Ch3 and ch4 are reminiscent of marshall country but in a much more refined way, most definitely capable of whatever genre of music you throw at it. Especially the Jun Jun

Not to mention with switchable cab emulation and a 2 balanced outs, you can run this preamp in ANY situation.

https://bruceegnater.com/ has some items on sale but no details on the new products
The most relevant post in his Insta is . Facebook has a few more relevant posts, but still nothing about the next products

 

[northern_fox]

It's not just about what's "needed" based on uniqueness. - it's about the amps you love or want. Do we need all the marshall models in there now? Highly doubtful. But they're there because cliff or someone else thought they were worth adding because they or other people like them. It's really as simple as that in my mind - we don't need to consider needs vs wants because everybody needs and wants different things. Players that usually go to to marshall tones might think adding anything more is totally unnecessary. But as a modern bass and guitar player, there is plenty of new innovation out there to replicate. It's not the the axe can't do it now, it's just that it always feels like swimming upstream.

 

[sprint]

Isn't what's modelled partly related to which amps are "open to study" in terms of detailed design either because that amp design is openly available, or has been provided by the owmer? Outside of those scenarios, is it possible (or legal, or ethical) for modeller builders to reverse engineer and model an amp whose design is not an open book already, or given?.

 

[lastcaress83]

Isn't what's modelled partly related to which amps are "open to study" in terms of detailed design either because that amp design is openly available, or has been provided by the owmer? Outside of those scenarios, is it possible (or legal, or ethical) for modeller builders to reverse engineer and model an amp whose design is not an open book already, or given?.

IP law on guitar amps is a tricky area considering everyone is ripping off everyone else. Soldano borrowed from Boogie who borrowed from Soldano etc etc. There are very few actual patents on any of it. What patents there are may or may not hold up in court.

 

[sprint]

IP law on guitar amps is a tricky area considering everyone is ripping off everyone else. Soldano borrowed from Boogie who borrowed from Soldano etc etc. There are very few actual patents on any of it. What patents there are may or may not hold up in court.

so the legal part is vague, but then there's the human side: amp makers / modellers seem to be a close nit group so there may be a lot of "understandings". Also, on the possibility side, if there's some sort of layered circuit board with goop on it, is it all that easy to properly replicate some of the more modern amps. Guess my point is that, it may well not be just about simply choosing the next amp one "wants" to model.

 

[cole lewis]

The only thing that really bothers me, to try to put it into words.

Say we go back almost a decade from now. When amp models were asked for there weren't as many and when you had wishes, the likelihood that amp was not just, some new amp by some small company with zero actual albums or artists endorsing them, was much more likely.

Marshall amps are actually used on records. The new OrangutanSilverGoatSponge 120 amp head by TacoMight amps, not been used on any records. All you ever have with these amps people request, is crappy sounding YouTube videos, and I mean genuinely crappy, most of the demos for high gain amps on YouTube are awful.

So I see a request for some things and I'm just like... What is making you really want the amp other than.... One or two YouTube videos that don't even sound good 90% of the time.

To me it comes across like gear addiction 1000% and really doesn't have much to do with the actual tone anymore. I genuinely believe it's the visual aesthetic of amps and seeing it on their phones making people want them and not hearing an actual tone anywhere that made them impressed.

 

[Will Schut]

The number of amps allready there x the number of tonestacks x the number of speaker impedance curves x the numer of IR's = a kazillion number of combinations (give or take a couple of million)

I think I'm good, thank you....

 

[cole lewis]

A hypothetical for everyone who plays metal to think about.

X artist. Records X album with 5150. That album becomes one of your absolute favorites tone wise.

X artist records new Y album. This time. They have ENGL Special Edition heads. From back when they were still available to buy new, for... 4 grand.....

Y album sounds by 99% of all peoples opinions, worse than the previous one.

Even with the album sounding dramatically worse. There will still be MANY guitarists convinced. The band uses the ENGL so I should get that one even though the previous album with 5150's, sounded better in every way.

I think it's because. Aesthetics/marketing.

Producer/engineers will be more likely to accept that, the 5150 in this hypothetical, is the better amp for recording. Players on the other hand. Much more easily convinced otherwise.

 

[jaycal6]

OTOH you have something like the Fryette Ultralead which is considered one of the greatest high gain amps of all time, used on countless albums, and it’s not modeled yet. So some requests are still quite valid.

 

[jephjacques]

The only thing that really bothers me, to try to put it into words.

Say we go back almost a decade from now. When amp models were asked for there weren't as many and when you had wishes, the likelihood that amp was not just, some new amp by some small company with zero actual albums or artists endorsing them, was much more likely.

Marshall amps are actually used on records. The new OrangutanSilverGoatSponge 120 amp head by TacoMight amps, not been used on any records. All you ever have with these amps people request, is crappy sounding YouTube videos, and I mean genuinely crappy, most of the demos for high gain amps on YouTube are awful.

So I see a request for some things and I'm just like... What is making you really want the amp other than.... One or two YouTube videos that don't even sound good 90% of the time.

To me it comes across like gear addiction 1000% and really doesn't have much to do with the actual tone anymore. I genuinely believe it's the visual aesthetic of amps and seeing it on their phones making people want them and not hearing an actual tone anywhere that made them impressed.

Your weird hostility toward new amp models notwithstanding, it's the opposite of gear addiction. It would be cool to have a Mezzabarba in the AxeFX because I'd like to try one out, but don't want to drop $4k or whatever on a big heavy tube amp I don't need and might not like anyway. Like northern_fox said, there's already a ton of models in the unit that aren't "needed," but it's nice and fun to have them there. Considering how many vintage-themed boutique models are already in there, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want some of the boutique modern amps included too, even if 90% of us just end up using a recto or a 5150 model anyway.

And just in case there's even a whiff of entitlement in my post, I'd like to reiterate that while this stuff would be nice to have, I'm 110% content with the AxeFX as it stands. Anything else they add at this point is a bonus on top of years' worth of other bonuses.

 

[northern_fox]

A hypothetical for everyone who plays metal to think about.

X artist. Records X album with 5150. That album becomes one of your absolute favorites tone wise.

X artist records new Y album. This time. They have ENGL Special Edition heads. From back when they were still available to buy new, for... 4 grand.....

Y album sounds by 99% of all peoples opinions, worse than the previous one.

Even with the album sounding dramatically worse. There will still be MANY guitarists convinced. The band uses the ENGL so I should get that one even though the previous album with 5150's, sounded better in every way.

I think it's because. Aesthetics/marketing.

Producer/engineers will be more likely to accept that, the 5150 in this hypothetical, is the better amp for recording. Players on the other hand. Much more easily convinced otherwise.

IMO - it doesn't matter. People like/want what they like/want for many reasons. Whether an amp is 'better' in one instance than another one isn't really a good basis for deciding if it can be included in the axe fx. It begs the question - is the axe FX meant to replace my real amps, or is it mean to get 'close enough' for live purposes? Perception of purpose is a dividing line here. I think some people see it as a box that can provide many amazing tones, while others see it as a precise and complete replacement for their specific rigs. Whether new amps are "needed" seems to depend on how you choose to use it.

Its like using the backline at a show - it might even be better/nicer than your own rig. But does that mean you prefer it?

 

[cole lewis]

People want what they want and that's fine.

 

[cole lewis]

it's the opposite of gear addiction. It would be cool to have a Mezzabarba in the AxeFX because I'd like to try one out, but don't want to drop $4k or whatever on a big heavy tube amp I don't need and might not like anyway.

Yes, craving a model of an amp you don't even know the sound of. Total opposite of gear addiction.

 

[Romo82]

Doesn't anyone else "build" their own amps from the extensive number of models and massive adjustment parameters already available? Select the basic ballpark amp, change a tone stack here, a bias there, input/output tubes etc.

I spent a few hours over the weekend doing just that and got a monster gain tone from a JVM410 with a Recto Orange tone stack in mid position pushed to 912k and some other tweaks.

 

[northern_fox]

Doesn't anyone else "build" their own amps from the extensive number of models and massive adjustment parameters already available? Select the basic ballpark amp, change a tone stack here, a bias there, input/output tubes etc.

I spent a few hours over the weekend doing just that and got a monster gain tone from a JVM410 with a Recto Orange tone stack in mid position pushed to 912k and some other tweaks.

Do it all the time - but honestly 90% of it is ruined by ear fatigue after tweaking the same amp for 45 minutes and the end result usually isn't better than the original in my case. The hours of my life I've spent A/B/C/D comparing making things "better" only to realize a day later they all actually sound pretty bad compared to the first version I made The danger of tweaking is real

 

[cole lewis]

Try out models you haven’t played in a while too.

Been running through the Deliverance 60 model lately.