My dirty tones are harsh and Fizzy... any pointers?

AllanH

AllanH

Inspired
Hi Axe'rs

I am running an Axe FX II MKI, in FRFR using 2 pcs HK Audio Pulsar (STELLAR speakers)

90% of my presets are clean amps with a Strat (playing in a Dire straits tribute band) and the sound is awesome (before axe I used high end amps)

Here's my frustraition.... I'm trying to make presets for my Les Paul, and it's no where as good in quality, as the clean ones. They sound harsh and a bit fizzy.... I have tried so many combinations of amps and cabs, and I'm far from blown away.

Tonight I used 3 hours in the rehearsing room alone at live volume, and I did find myself a better sound, but now it's only at a level where I can live with it, and that is frustrating since the clean stuff is just in another league...

Any advise? It's only three songs I play with the dirty sound (Heavy fuel, Money for nothing and Brother in arms...) Strumming chrods on the dirty stuff sounds OK, and I play without a pick, so maybe thats some of the problem?

Cheers
Allan
Ps. The Guitar is not the problem, I have used it on Rivera, Bogner and Dr-Z amps etc and it sounded fantastic
 
Try to lower the bright cap in the amp block, advanced parameters .
On any of the plexi models the default value is usually 4999.
Try really low like 100-200.

If iIremember correct you have to engage the bright switch.
 
Which Les Paul is that? Burstbucker Pros are pretty harsh, IMO, and that's how they're supposed to sound. Much harsher than a Strat. Some amps will emphasize that, some will mask. And what about the cabinets/IRs? An IR captured with a close mic will be harsher than a real cabinet in a room. Try the dephase parameter of you don't like it.

Also, there's a universal Les Paul setup trick. Set up the amp tone for the NECK pickup, so that it sounds good, not nasal/boomy. Switch to bridge, it'll be piercing shriek. Note turn bridge tone control on your guitar down, to 6-7, or whatever makes it trebly but not too nasty. Now switch to both pickups, and turn down neck volume to 7-8 or so. Now you'll get a huge variety of usable tones from your guitar.
 
Which guitar is the Axe's input level set to? If it is the Strat, you might be clipping or overdriving the Axe somewhere internally.
 
AllanH said:
Hi Axe'rs

I am running an Axe FX II MKI, in FRFR using 2 pcs HK Audio Pulsar (STELLAR speakers)

90% of my presets are clean amps with a Strat (playing in a Dire straits tribute band) and the sound is awesome (before axe I used high end amps)

Here's my frustraition.... I'm trying to make presets for my Les Paul, and it's no where as good in quality, as the clean ones. They sound harsh and a bit fizzy.... I have tried so many combinations of amps and cabs, and I'm far from blown away.

Tonight I used 3 hours in the rehearsing room alone at live volume, and I did find myself a better sound, but now it's only at a level where I can live with it, and that is frustrating since the clean stuff is just in another league...

Any advise? It's only three songs I play with the dirty sound (Heavy fuel, Money for nothing and Brother in arms...) Strumming chrods on the dirty stuff sounds OK, and I play without a pick, so maybe thats some of the problem?

Cheers
Allan
Ps. The Guitar is not the problem, I have used it on Rivera, Bogner and Dr-Z amps etc and it sounded fantastic
Click to expand...


Hi Allan;

Mike here from germany.
You're looking for an preset to play Marks Les Paul sound?
I'm using most of the time the boutique stuff of the axe, beside some Fenders, Oranges and Marshalls.
For that special MK sound I use the Komet60, as Mark does.

I have my preset compared to the DVD concert "All the roadrunning".
There is a song "I dug up a diamond" where you can hear some great solos of him with the Komet.
That's the basement for me to recreate his sound nearly.

Scene 1 & 2 has very little gain, nearly clean with enough sustain; scene 2 has the BB Pre in front of the amp. Reverb is used.
Scene 3 & 4 has a bit different settings with the typical gain, Mark has; scene 4 also BB Pre. Reverb is used.
Scene 5 & 6 has the same settings as scene 1 & 2, but uses delay instead of reverb; it's a Rock 'n Roll like Delay.
Scene 7 & 8 are like 3 & 4, but also delay instead of reverb.

There are some things to know;

- I use the preset with a
> '90 Les Paul Standard with Gibson Classic 57 at the neck & 57 Plus at the bridge
> Les Paul Custom Shop Goldtop R7 VOS with Burstbucker 1 (neck) & Burstbucker 2 (bridge)
> Fender Vintage Strat with '54 Cutom Shop PUs

Especially the Les Pauls I use for working with the volume and the tone knob, because there is a great bandwith
to vary the sound.

Scenes 1 to 4 are the typical warm MK sounds with neck or neck + bridge pickup active.
Scenes 5 to 8 are more RnR like sounds because of the delay; I prefer to play them with the neck pickups of the Les Pauls.

Created are my presets per default with a AKG K601 headphone.
To use the preset live, you may adapt it to your personal environment.
My gear is the AxeFx II Mark II with firmware QUANTUM 1.01.
The cabs are here factory cabs.


View attachment Komet60 MK_Gradual Q1.01-XY.syx

Best regards from germany and have fun :)
 
....no seriously, have you tried turning the treble and presence down?

There should be no need to dig into advanced parameters if it's just an abundance of high mids causing the issue.
Give it a shot!
 
Advice? Don't solo your tones, audition them with the band or in the mix. A little hair quickly disappears when surrounded by a full band. It's usually what keeps you from getting lost completely in a busy mix.
 
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Be sure your strings are not too old. Had this lately. I use Elixirs and thought they where still ok. But they were not. Top end was harsh on distorted tones. Clean tones were not as bad, but waaay better after restringing, too. But I'm sure you're not as dumb as me ...


Sent from my phone
 
Oh my.... what loads of replys, thanks for that to all of you. I'll try and answer it all here. Just to be sure, it is important to me that you know that when I say harsh/fizzy it is not in terms of broken equipment etc, just compared to my cleans.

I'll try and dial around on the bright cap

The Les Paul is not the problem, I have been gigging with it for years, and it sounded warm and nice on any amp I have used it with. It's a mid 90'ies LP with stock picks, but they are not that hot in the output which I like.
Mike from Germany: I also use the Komet60 which is the one I get closest with. I am using a 4x12 V30 cab from one of the cab packs and have tried others as well, here among the 4x12 EV12L. Which cab do you use? I'll try your preset when I get a chance.

I Tried the HBE amp yesterday, with a TV cab, it was alright but not the gain im looking for.

The input is not clipping (it is not much hotter than my strat)

Strings are always rather new (D'dario's) :eagerness:

I think I did som OK'ish presets yesterday, but as someone mentioned I need to try them in a band mix. There I went to SLO100 for heavy fuel, and Comet concorde for Brothers in arms. It is very similar to the Komet 60 but has a steaper curve when distorting. I use a micro boost in front of the amp to push it a bit.

I'll up load my old presets for you soon. Also the new ones when I get a chance to connect my axe again. My old preset was made based on the JTM45 which was the amp brothers in arms was recorded through, but that is quite harsh to my ears. I have really good succes using the amp sim based on actual recordings on my clean presets and it sounds stellar...
 
Are these your new or old presets?

First, the Money for nothing preset, your reverb block has the level set to -80, so there is no sound at all. The filter block, same deal. The cab block has an IR with a mic already baked in, and you use a mic on top of that. You also have the delay in the cab block on, even though you use only one cab (this delay is for sorting out phase issues when using multiple cabs).

For the Brothers in arms preset, the same thing with the reverb and filter block apply. You also don't need to use 2 delay blocks for what you do, you can do the same thing with either the digital stereo or dual delay type. For this preset, you use an user cab, so it's hard to judge the tone of it that way.

After I sorted out the issues with both presets being silent, and loaded the same factory cab into the Brothers preset as in the Money one, I could finally try them out. They are both VERY VERY dark. If you call that harsh, my first guess is that there is something wrong with what you're listening through. Either that, or you are allergic to high end *joke* ;) Also, try the Solo100 Rhythm instead of the Solo100 Lead, because when Mark used a SLO100, I'm pretty sure he used the rhythm channel, not the lead channel. Also, if you use the rhythm one instead, you won't have to run such extreme settings to keep the gain down.
 
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One trick I've learned on this forum is to put a PEQ after your cab block & set band 5 to Blocking. Set the Freq to about 7k as a starting point & adjust to taste. Takes a lot of the top end fizz out if that's what you're after. You'll still be able to adjust that top-end "sizzle" without the harshness.
 
jyflorida said:
One trick I've learned on this forum is to put a PEQ after your cab block & set band 5 to Blocking. Set the Freq to about 7k as a starting point & adjust to taste. Takes a lot of the top end fizz out if that's what you're after. You'll still be able to adjust that top-end "sizzle" without the harshness.
Click to expand...

Try his presets, there is no need ;)
 
The AxeFx Marshall tones are modeled to Van Halen type tones.......brown & fizzy baby!

Just relax & play Money For Nothing with some tapping, pick squeals & divebombs! lol
 
try turning the hi-cut in the cab block down to a value between 7000 and 8000
it'll narrow down the cab block's freq range to something more like what you'd expect from a real cab..

I'll generally have it set to 7500..
and it I need a little more sizzle I'll set it to 8000 to let a little more of the extreme hi-end thru
 
guitarnerdswe said:
Are these your new or old presets?

First, the Money for nothing preset, your reverb block has the level set to -80, so there is no sound at all. The filter block, same deal. The cab block has an IR with a mic already baked in, and you use a mic on top of that. You also have the delay in the cab block on, even though you use only one cab (this delay is for sorting out phase issues when using multiple cabs).

For the Brothers in arms preset, the same thing with the reverb and filter block apply. You also don't need to use 2 delay blocks for what you do, you can do the same thing with either the digital stereo or dual delay type. For this preset, you use an user cab, so it's hard to judge the tone of it that way.

After I sorted out the issues with both presets being silent, and loaded the same factory cab into the Brothers preset as in the Money one, I could finally try them out. They are both VERY VERY dark. If you call that harsh, my first guess is that there is something wrong with what you're listening through. Either that, or you are allergic to high end *joke* ;) Also, try the Solo100 Rhythm instead of the Solo100 Lead, because when Mark used a SLO100, I'm pretty sure he used the rhythm channel, not the lead channel. Also, if you use the rhythm one instead, you won't have to run such extreme settings to keep the gain down.
Click to expand...

OK then something is not right. I need to test with my Axe if I send the correct ones. Either I made a mistake choosin the correct backup file, or something happens using them with Q1?
 
clarky said:
try turning the hi-cut in the cab block down to a value between 7000 and 8000
it'll narrow down the cab block's freq range to something more like what you'd expect from a real cab..

I'll generally have it set to 7500..
and it I need a little more sizzle I'll set it to 8000 to let a little more of the extreme hi-end thru
Click to expand...

This ^.
 
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