IRs York Audio Master Thread - Newest Cab Pack: KW 412 M25-SH

Third-party impulse response pack
I’ve found, particularly with 57 IRs that just adding a tiny bit of mic distance can make the high end more pleasant. And adding proximity can really thicken the low end. I like “mixes” but dialing in a single 57 or 58 IR is really all you need IMO
 
York Audio said:
This 100%. Cuts should only be used when necessary for the particular mix and not as a "blanket default setting" players have to tweak around.


No matter which IR I use, I never use high cuts and simply adjust the amp settings. There's nothing wrong with using "drastic" amp settings if it gives you the tone you want. Scott Henderson sets the Bass on his Plexi at zero, Brian May sets Bass and Treble on his AC30 at zero, a Mesa Mark IV sounds its best with the Treble on 10 with low Bass and Middle settings before the GEQ, I always run Mesa Dual Recs with the Mids at 8-10... my JMP sounds its best with the Presence on 10 and Treble around 3. I remember playing a Plexi that had to be set with the Mids on 10 and Presence and Treble at zero to sound good. All that to say, any knob on an amp is meant to be turned anywhere from zero-10 without any "wrong" setting. It's all about dialing the amp for what you're hearing.

It could also be the amp model you're using. The Friedman stuff tends to have a lot of upper mids (a frequency range that hurts my ears when turned up loud) and not a lot of lively high/airy treble, so I have a hard time bonding with those models. The BE V3 has a ton of these upper mids, so you may want to try using a PEQ after the amp. Try cutting the Type 3 slot at 2360Hz by -2dB to start and use the Solo button "S3" to only hear the frequency range you want to cut. Adjust the Q fairly tight at around 5 or so and sweep that area until you hear something really harsh. Now un-solo the S3 and see how your tone feels. You may want to cut it even more or widen the Q for your personal tastes, but that will help you tame an area that sounds abrasive to you. You can do the same thing for boxy mids or higher frequencies as well. Just try to cut ONLY what you need, otherwise you'll lose the soul of the amp.

I can't really recommend a specific IR for FOH because it all depends on the player, guitar, playing technique, amp, and style. I always chose an IR with character I liked and dialed in my tones through my studio monitors while playing with the album to get a feel for what it would sound like in context with the rest of the band. At rehearsal, my laptop sat on top of my cab with Axe-Edit open and I would make minor tweaks to get things sitting in a good place. Sometimes I'd try a different amp model if the amp I was using wasn't fitting well with the rest of the band.

The sound guy tunes/EQs the PA for the room. If they've done their job well, you shouldn't have any problems with harshness, and any minor tonal issues can easily be addressed at the console.

If you love your tone with a high cut at 6k, that's perfectly fine. There's no wrong way to get a tone as long as it inspires you to play your best.
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Hey Justin, just wanted to ask: did you dial in the tones in the studio with high volume or just regular listening volume? Also I am kind of curious which studio monitors you use? Thank you so much!
 
DropDee said:
Hey Justin, just wanted to ask: did you dial in the tones in the studio with high volume or just regular listening volume? Also I am kind of curious which studio monitors you use? Thank you so much!
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Mostly regular listening volume to preserve my hearing, and then I'd crank it up to see how it translated at higher volume and make minor adjustments if needed. Ear fatigue makes you lose perspective on what you're hearing, so dial in with healthy ears.

My monitors are ATC SCM25a Pro, but I did this with my old Dynaudio BM6A pair as well with great results.
 
Justin,
I've tried your suggestions, with no cuts at all, I've just put a PEQ after the bloc Cab, cutting -3 dB at 4500 Hz, with a Q of 5...
Same amp settings, except less Bass, same IR (MARSH V30's and KW 25 SH, both mix 01)... The tones are perfect, there's no need to drastic Highs cut at all.

Thank you 👍
 
York Audio said:
Mostly regular listening volume to preserve my hearing, and then I'd crank it up to see how it translated at higher volume and make minor adjustments if needed. Ear fatigue makes you lose perspective on what you're hearing, so dial in with healthy ears.

My monitors are ATC SCM25a Pro, but I did this with my old Dynaudio BM6A pair as well with great results.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much! I only use the Slate VSX stuff, how is your opinion about that product, have you tried that system? Really love the Zuma studio midfields (Adam S3H).
 
Anto said:
Justin,
I've tried your suggestions, with no cuts at all, I've just put a PEQ after the bloc Cab, cutting -3 dB at 4500 Hz, with a Q of 5...
Same amp settings, except less Bass, same IR (MARSH V30's and KW 25 SH, both mix 01)... The tones are perfect, there's no need to drastic Highs cut at all.

Thank you 👍
Click to expand...
That's awesome! I'm glad it's working for you. Now that you know the frequency you want to cut, you can use the GEQ in the amp block instead of a PEQ block to make the adjustment and save some CPU. Try cutting 4.5k -1dB and continue in 0.25dB increments until you smooth that area without altering your tone too much. You only want to cut what you don't need, so make sure you don't overdo it.

DropDee said:
Thank you so much! I only use the Slate VSX stuff, how is your opinion about that product, have you tried that system? Really love the Zuma studio midfields (Adam S3H).
Click to expand...
I got the VSX when it first came out and compared their room with ATC SCM25a monitors (maybe the NRG?) to my room. I thought they did an excellent job recreating the sound of those monitors. There were some differences between their room and mine, but the character felt impressively familiar. I've recommended that system to several friends who really love it and I use those headphones quite a bit without the software for a nice neutral headphone experience.
 
Anto said:
Justin,
I've tried your suggestions, with no cuts at all, I've just put a PEQ after the bloc Cab, cutting -3 dB at 4500 Hz, with a Q of 5...
Same amp settings, except less Bass, same IR (MARSH V30's and KW 25 SH, both mix 01)... The tones are perfect, there's no need to drastic Highs cut at all.

Thank you 👍
Click to expand...
You're effectively doing the same thing, though... Cutting highs within the Cab block or right after with an EQ is the same result.

Justin suggested putting the EQ after the Amp block (implying before the Cab block).

However, note that as far as I understand and accounting for LTI (Linear Time Invariant) effects, a post-Amp / pre-Cab EQ should really be the same as EQ in the Cab block or after.

That is, unless you're Cab block settings (preamp) are adding any distortion.

Also, I'll note that while I think Justin has great ears and I love his IR packs and he provides great advice, Cliff himself has posted in the past that he used High Cut in the Cab block starting about 8k and adjusting as needed. Cliff also has great ears ;)

As always, do what works for you :)

Edit:

I'll correct myself a bit: using the EQ block does allow a more "precise" approach than the High Cut.
 
unix-guy said:
You're effectively doing the same thing, though... Cutting highs within the Cab block or right after with an EQ is the same result.

Justin suggested putting the EQ after the Amp block (implying before the Cab block).

However, note that as far as I understand and accounting for LTI (Linear Time Invariant) effects, a post-Amp / pre-Cab EQ should really be the same as EQ in the Cab block or after.

That is, unless you're Cab block settings (preamp) are adding any distortion.

Also, I'll note that while I think Justin has great ears and I love his IR packs and he provides great advice, Cliff himself has posted in the past that he used High Cut in the Cab block starting about 8k and adjusting as needed. Cliff also has great ears ;)

As always, do what works for you :)

Edit:

I'll correct myself a bit: using the EQ block does allow a more "precise" approach than the High Cut.
Click to expand...
You're correct in saying cutting highs in the cab block is the same as cutting highs with a PEQ block, but in this case, he's turned off the high cut in the cab block and using the PEQ only to reduce a specific frequency rather than chopping off everything north of "X"kHz. Doing this tames the offending frequency without eliminating natural high end energy.
 
Decades ago, I learned to peak an analog PEQ band with relatively high Q and 6-12 dB of boost, and sweep it until the obnoxious frequency got massively worse, then roll the gain back to cut it just enough to make it play nice. It seems to still work on digital stuff.

Similar trick with a low Q and ending in a small boost works for helping guitar poke out a little more in a mix without stepping on the bass or vocals....
 
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York Audio said:
Listening now and I love those melodic high spacey lines! Thanks for sharing your music with us.


I'd love to hear your thoughts after trying it with the band to see how your tone translates. Just don't forget to retweak your amp settings if necessary.

If it's still dark, try the 57m and 58-1, 2, 3, and CN captures to see if a single mic is a better fit for you. The SM7 and 421m are good alternative options as well.
Click to expand...
I tried it at my gig yesterday night on some songs.

It was a legacy ir (just because those tones were already made before). And it was really great! The tones were really more alive in the mix. I also cut more lows to bring out some mids and clarity. It was really great.

And it's exactly how I dialed my amps... with the modelers we are really into overthinking I guess.

I have one specific question for you :

I'm a huge fan of Richie Kotzen and never could get an IR that matches the tone he gets live. he generally use Plexi but never managed to find a IR that could get me close to his really well balanced tone.
With of your pack(s)/mix do you suggest? it seems simple but its not lol

Thanks

 
York Audio said:
That's awesome! I'm glad it's working for you. Now that you know the frequency you want to cut, you can use the GEQ in the amp block instead of a PEQ block to make the adjustment and save some CPU. Try cutting 4.5k -1dB and continue in 0.25dB increments until you smooth that area without altering your tone too much. You only want to cut what you don't need, so make sure you don't overdo it.


I got the VSX when it first came out and compared their room with ATC SCM25a monitors (maybe the NRG?) to my room. I thought they did an excellent job recreating the sound of those monitors. There were some differences between their room and mine, but the character felt impressively familiar. I've recommended that system to several friends who really love it and I use those headphones quite a bit without the software for a nice neutral headphone experience.
Click to expand...
Yeah that is the NRG studio with the ATC SCM25a, I also got that room and like it quite a lot but nothing beats the Zuma for me, so much clarity in that room and kind of an "upfrontness" in the guitars! It also has the best stereo field for me and sounds super wide, great sound stage. You should really check out the plugin if you havent since you've first got it because they did some great updates to the rooms and V4.0 sounds quite a lot different then V3.0 or V2.0. Since using VSX, my tones translate super well!
 
Joshua_L said:
I tried it at my gig yesterday night on some songs.

It was a legacy ir (just because those tones were already made before). And it was really great! The tones were really more alive in the mix. I also cut more lows to bring out some mids and clarity. It was really great.

And it's exactly how I dialed my amps... with the modelers we are really into overthinking I guess.

I have one specific question for you :

I'm a huge fan of Richie Kotzen and never could get an IR that matches the tone he gets live. he generally use Plexi but never managed to find a IR that could get me close to his really well balanced tone.
With of your pack(s)/mix do you suggest? it seems simple but its not lol

Thanks

Click to expand...

I watched his rig rundown from that show. He used the Normal channel on a Marshall 1959SLP with presence at 5, BMT all on 10, Treble Volume at zero, and Normal Volume just below 2. The cabs had H30 speakers, so the MRSH 412 Blackjack might be a good fit.

He doesn't use a pick and gets his drive sound from his signature Tech 21 Fly Rig, but he didn't say what the drive section was based on.

I hope this helps.
 
York Audio said:
This 100%. Cuts should only be used when necessary for the particular mix and not as a "blanket default setting" players have to tweak around.


No matter which IR I use, I never use high cuts and simply adjust the amp settings. There's nothing wrong with using "drastic" amp settings if it gives you the tone you want. Scott Henderson sets the Bass on his Plexi at zero, Brian May sets Bass and Treble on his AC30 at zero, a Mesa Mark IV sounds its best with the Treble on 10 with low Bass and Middle settings before the GEQ, I always run Mesa Dual Recs with the Mids at 8-10... my JMP sounds its best with the Presence on 10 and Treble around 3. I remember playing a Plexi that had to be set with the Mids on 10 and Presence and Treble at zero to sound good. All that to say, any knob on an amp is meant to be turned anywhere from zero-10 without any "wrong" setting. It's all about dialing the amp for what you're hearing.

It could also be the amp model you're using. The Friedman stuff tends to have a lot of upper mids (a frequency range that hurts my ears when turned up loud) and not a lot of lively high/airy treble, so I have a hard time bonding with those models. The BE V3 has a ton of these upper mids, so you may want to try using a PEQ after the amp. Try cutting the Type 3 slot at 2360Hz by -2dB to start and use the Solo button "S3" to only hear the frequency range you want to cut. Adjust the Q fairly tight at around 5 or so and sweep that area until you hear something really harsh. Now un-solo the S3 and see how your tone feels. You may want to cut it even more or widen the Q for your personal tastes, but that will help you tame an area that sounds abrasive to you. You can do the same thing for boxy mids or higher frequencies as well. Just try to cut ONLY what you need, otherwise you'll lose the soul of the amp.

I can't really recommend a specific IR for FOH because it all depends on the player, guitar, playing technique, amp, and style. I always chose an IR with character I liked and dialed in my tones through my studio monitors while playing with the album to get a feel for what it would sound like in context with the rest of the band. At rehearsal, my laptop sat on top of my cab with Axe-Edit open and I would make minor tweaks to get things sitting in a good place. Sometimes I'd try a different amp model if the amp I was using wasn't fitting well with the rest of the band.

The sound guy tunes/EQs the PA for the room. If they've done their job well, you shouldn't have any problems with harshness, and any minor tonal issues can easily be addressed at the console.

If you love your tone with a high cut at 6k, that's perfectly fine. There's no wrong way to get a tone as long as it inspires you to play your best.
Click to expand...
Were you using your mesa cab at rehearsals? I know you said you used it live. What kind of power amp were you using with your axe fx? And were you running the full chain and cab block to FOH but a chain without the cab block to your mesa cab?
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Were you using your mesa cab at rehearsals? I know you said you used it live. What kind of power amp were you using with your axe fx? And were you running the full chain and cab block to FOH but a chain without the cab block to your mesa cab?
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Yeah, I used my Mesa cab at rehearsals, but kept the volume on the lower side since we used in-ears for the band mix. You can use any power amp. And yes, I sent FOH my full chain with the cab block through Output 1 and sent a line from the amp block to Output 2 without the cab block going into my Mesa. Then I'd use the Global Output 2 EQ to sculpt the live cab's tone to sound pleasing for the audience in the front rows.
 
Fascinating thread....

I'm another player who's systematically cut at at least 8K ever since reading threads in the past that suggested to do so, and I also have some pretty harsh cuts on the top end of my output EQ. We play through our own PA and my tone is good, although at times needs a good few db of boost to be heard in the mix - quite possibly because some of those higher frequencies that cut through just aren't there? Whilst I like the idea of using our ears and that there are no rules, this thread has made me realise that I do have a tendency set the BMT in the amp block at what seem to be the "right" settings (for example 4, 6 & 5) and never at the extremes, so I've never experimented as @York Audio has suggested and had them as low or high as they need to be to get a tone that's pleasing to my ears, even if that means 0 or 10.

Time to revisit some of my patches, lose the hi cut and get creative with the amp settings!
 
Davus PG said:
Fascinating thread....

I'm another player who's systematically cut at at least 8K ever since reading threads in the past that suggested to do so, and I also have some pretty harsh cuts on the top end of my output EQ. We play through our own PA and my tone is good, although at times needs a good few db of boost to be heard in the mix - quite possibly because some of those higher frequencies that cut through just aren't there? Whilst I like the idea of using our ears and that there are no rules, this thread has made me realise that I do have a tendency set the BMT in the amp block at what seem to be the "right" settings (for example 4, 6 & 5) and never at the extremes, so I've never experimented as @York Audio has suggested and had them as low or high as they need to be to get a tone that's pleasing to my ears, even if that means 0 or 10.

Time to revisit some of my patches, lose the hi cut and get creative with the amp settings!
Click to expand...

I just revisited my patches and got rid of all cuts as you say. After re dialing i had my first band practice last night since doing so. My tone cut so good it was crazy! I run the board for us at practice and generally the other guitar player and I are within a db of each other on the faders. Last night i had to boost the other guitar players fader and lower mine by a few db's. Nothing with the gain staging or overall preset volumes changed between either of us. (I asked her to make sure her sounds were the same since last practice.) I also kept a version of my old sounds with cuts so i could A B during parts of songs live. The new tones with zero cutting had way more percieved volume. Preset leveling tool was used on everything to make sure it was as close as i can get it too. Maybe i'm crazy but i really did seem to make a big difference for my tones. What make the most since to me was when Justin commented and said when mic'ing our real amps and cabs most don't slap a high/low cut at 80/8k as a starting point. Its mic'ed and THEN adjusted. Makes alot of since to me at least!
 
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