Yet another spillover thread

Michele Guzzini

Michele Guzzini

Inspired
I have two presets, one with a mono delay and the other with a ping-pong delay. Both delay's bypass mode is "Mute FX IN". When I switch from preset 1 to preset 2, the spillover delay has the settings of the preset 2 (ping-pong delay) and viceversa, even if the second delay block is bypassed or not. How can I inherit the spillover delay settings from preset 1?
Thank you ;)
 
You must add two delay blocks to each preset, one for each setting. Make sure they are identical, both parameters and which is Delay 1/2.
 
Can't be done in automatic like the g-major does?? This is a big lack for me, cause I use 5-6 different delays in my main presets :(
 
Thank you browlett, I understand that I need another delay block with the same settings of the "source" preset, but what if I come from a preset with another delay?
I know that it's not easy to implement an "auto" spillover, but it's a big limit that a fantastic device like the Axe-fx can't empty the buffer of the delay without change it's settings when you switch from a preset to another. IMHO we are talking of a basic feature that can be found in pro gears above 300€.
I found THIS "wish list" thread, but people seem not really interested, or maybe am I the only one that uses more than 2 delay settings? (sarcasm :roll)

I don't want to be polemical, just don't understand why we don't care about a feature that I consider critical, while we have a lot of features that somebody probably will never use :)

(Sorry for the english)
 
killo said:
Thank you browlett, I understand that I need another delay block with the same settings of the "source" preset, but what if I come from a preset with another delay?
I know that it's not easy to implement an "auto" spillover, but it's a big limit that a fantastic device like the Axe-fx can't empty the buffer of the delay without change it's settings when you switch from a preset to another. IMHO we are talking of a basic feature that can be found in pro gears above 300€.
I found THIS "wish list" thread, but people seem not really interested, or maybe am I the only one that uses more than 2 delay settings? (sarcasm :roll)

I don't want to be polemical, just don't understand why we don't care about a feature that I consider critical, while we have a lot of features that somebody probably will never use :)

(Sorry for the english)
Click to expand...

Remember this if you try doing it the way that I described in the other thread that I gave you a link to....

Do you know how you can have more than one reverb or delay in a signal chain? (Like "Reverb 1" and "Reverb 2" or "Delay 1" and "Delay 2") ...Well, you want to be sure that in the second patch that you go to, the spillover reverb and/or delay (that you put in another row isolated at the end) has the same number as the reverb or delay that's spilling over from the other patch. In other words, if (in the first patch) the Reverb that you want to carry over is called "Reverb 1" --- Make sure that the spillover reverb block that you put by itself in the second patch is also called "Reverb 1" and has the same or similar settings. If you need another reverb in the second patch for your performances after you go there, make it something else, such as "Reverb 2" in this example. Obviously, the same thing applies for delays. So...

* "Reverb 1" in the first patch will spill over into the "Reverb 1" block in any other patch that you switch to.
* "Reverb 2" in the first patch will spill over into the "Reverb 2" block in any other patch that you switch to.
* "Delay 1" in the first patch will spill over into the "Delay 1" block in any other patch that you switch to.
* "Delay 2" in the first patch will spill over into the "Delay 2" block in any other patch that you switch to.

The original method listed in the Axe FX Wiki is simpler than how I do it. But, when you use that "easier" method, your spillover delay will take on the settings of the new patch that you switch to. This is not a problem if they're similar. But, it can sound strange if they're different.

For example, if I decide to go from a lead tone in a guitar solo that has nice delays and lush reverb on it and then switch to a cleaner patch after that part of the song, I want the echoing type of delay and/or reverb from my solo to ring out the same way and not immediately cut down to the more subtle ones set up in the cleaner, quieter patch that I switch to. I want my solo to ring out and end with the same big sound that I played it with. The slightly extra effort is worth it to me.
 
I see your point, but what if I have a third preset with different delay settings from "Delay 1" and "Delay 2"? I can spillover just 2 different delays, that's the point.
For example, I need to switch to a clean preset with mono delay from two different presets, one with a single repeat and the other with a long ping pong delay. I can set the spillover delay block only for one of them.
 
I gave up on spillover on the Axe a long time ago. It is not implemented at all like anything else on the market, and it has huge limitations and drawbacks. I can tell from the little bit of info we got back from Fractal that this is not about to change, so I found alternative ways to work that don't rely on spillover to work (*). This may explain why you saw little or no interest on the wish list item - nobody thinks it's ever going to happen, so why bother?

(*) I design my presets to be highly flexible so that I never have to change to a different preset mid-song (ideally). If I need a clean and a lead in the same song, I design a two amp / two cab preset, with all the effects I'll need (enabled or not via IAs or expression pedals), and I just use the same preset throughout the entire song, changing the enabled features of a single preset rather than changing to an entirely different preset. That's not always possible, obviously, so it's a partial solution only. When I absolutely must change presets during a song, I swear up and down because my ultimate processor doesn't really have spillover (just a workaround for spillover), while its twenty years old predecessor had a perfectly working spillover. I just chose to live with the sharp cutoff of delays and reverbs, I endure the weird looks from my other guitarist and his "spillover-capable" Zoom unit, and I just live with it. It pisses me off, but you know what? I still love my Ultra. Other than the lack of spillover, it sounds great.
 
I see both sides of this argument.

On one hand, I don't see what the big deal is. I get satisfactory enough spillover using the method that I've alluded to here. It's not always perfect. But, it's better than nothing.

On the other hand, I know how great spillover can be. I still own an old Digitech GSP-2101 Artist from the mid-1990's. It worked off of what they called "S-Disc" technology. When I bought it, I also purchased and installed a second S-Disc, which allowed me to have perfect spillover. The idea was that as you switched patches, the sound you hear would alternate from 1 of these S-Discs to the other. So, your reverbs and delays would continue to ring out in their entirety on the S-Disc that the first patch was processed on. Then, as you started playing via the next patch, it was processed on the other S-Disc. So, the new patch's reverb and delay settings rang out independently of what was spilling over from the previous patch. As you continued to switch patches, the unit would alternate between the 2 S-Discs. It was/is 100% seamless and sounded fabulous live.

So, I definitely do see both sides of it. I would certainly prefer a better spillover if it became possible. But, I'm not sure that such perfect spillover is possible with the way that Cliff designed the Axe FX hardware. Either way, it's not the end of the world to me. I'm getting it to work well enough for most situations as it is.
 
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Dpoirier said:
I gave up on spillover on the Axe a long time ago. It is not implemented at all like anything else on the market, and it has huge limitations and drawbacks. I can tell from the little bit of info we got back from Fractal that this is not about to change, so I found alternative ways to work that don't rely on spillover to work (*). This may explain why you saw little or no interest on the wish list item - nobody thinks it's ever going to happen, so why bother?

(*) I design my presets to be highly flexible so that I never have to change to a different preset mid-song (ideally). If I need a clean and a lead in the same song, I design a two amp / two cab preset, with all the effects I'll need (enabled or not via IAs or expression pedals), and I just use the same preset throughout the entire song, changing the enabled features of a single preset rather than changing to an entirely different preset. That's not always possible, obviously, so it's a partial solution only. When I absolutely must change presets during a song, I swear up and down because my ultimate processor doesn't really have spillover (just a workaround for spillover), while its twenty years old predecessor had a perfectly working spillover. I just chose to live with the sharp cutoff of delays and reverbs, I endure the weird looks from my other guitarist and his "spillover-capable" Zoom unit, and I just live with it. It pisses me off, but you know what? I still love my Ultra. Other than the lack of spillover, it sounds great.
Click to expand...

This solution is a huge compromise just to have this basic feature.

We need a dedicated spillover block that we put at the end of the routing, with just a setting: Delay1 or Delay2 (the one we want to spill). Just before the preset switch, the Axe-fx copies the current delay settings to the destination spillover block that plays the buffer with the correct settings. No problem if this means 10 or 20ms of extra switch time.
Is this too hard to implement???
 
I have used both methods described here, using the extra delay blocks or a patch with two amps/delays.

If you have the Ultra, you also have the Megatap Delay and MultiDelay blocks, combined with the two Delay blocks that gives you 4 different delays to mix & match for spillover.
 
AlbertA said:
Use 2 destination patches as a workaround, where each have the correct delay settings.
Click to expand...

This is too complex solution for a live use.
Yes tubetonez I have an Ultra, i will try to use the other delays, but I'm still perplexed that we can do an incredible number of things with the Axe-fx and we can't have a full working spillover.
 
killo said:
This solution is a huge compromise just to have this basic feature.

We need a dedicated spillover block that we put at the end of the routing, with just a setting: Delay1 or Delay2 (the one we want to spill). Just before the preset switch, the Axe-fx copies the current delay settings to the destination spillover block that plays the buffer with the correct settings. No problem if this means 10 or 20ms of extra switch time.
Is this too hard to implement???
Click to expand...
Well sure, that's what I want too, and better yet, I don't want it to be selective (i.e. it needs to accept the spillover from either delay 1 or 2), I don't want it to extend the switching time (i.e. always fill up the dedicated spillover block once a preset is loaded, that way it's ready to go when you switch away from that preset), and I want it possible to enable/disable both globally and on a per-preset basis. But I also want a hundred million dollars and a house in southern Spain... but I don't think I'm gonna get any of the above. I think a dedicated spillover block could have been entirely possible at some time, but that the optimized code and how packed the firmware already is are both indications that we're well past that opportunity. But I don't know that for a fact, just speculating based on the absence of spillover even after all these years. I'm guessing it's no longer possible (at least without some significant compromise).
 
Keep in mind that when running an old Digitech with dual SDISCs, you can only use spillover if the two programs each use only one of the SDISCs. This cuts the processing power in half for spillover.

I've experienced instances when I'm treated to a blast of reverb or delay containing input from the previous preset when I switch to an unrelated preset (such as a new song). There are ways around it using cc messages or waiting sufficient time between songs. Having a Bypass mode that clears the buffer would be nice, but I can work around it at present. I think it is a valid wish list item if it is possible to implement.
 
We just need that the spillover delay block takes the settings from the previous preset at the moment of the switch.

@Dpoirier: everyone want a hundred milion dollars, but here we are not talking about an impossibile feature. We have Vocoder, Ring Modulator, Resonator, Synth, Formant, Quad Chorus ecc....but we don't have a fully working spillover...

Please Cliff tell us if it's possible to implement this function. Thank you!
 
killo said:
We just need that the spillover delay block takes the settings from the previous preset at the moment of the switch.

@Dpoirier: everyone want a hundred milion dollars, but here we are not talking about an impossibile feature. We have Vocoder, Ring Modulator, Resonator, Synth, Formant, Quad Chorus ecc....but we don't have a fully working spillover...

Please Cliff tell us if it's possible to implement this function. Thank you!
Click to expand...

Define "fully working spillover". What it currently has is fully working, otherwise it would be a bug.
 
killo said:
We just need that the spillover delay block takes the settings from the previous preset at the moment of the switch.

@Dpoirier: everyone want a hundred milion dollars, but here we are not talking about an impossibile feature. We have Vocoder, Ring Modulator, Resonator, Synth, Formant, Quad Chorus ecc....but we don't have a fully working spillover...

Please Cliff tell us if it's possible to implement this function. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong - I'm totally on your side, and want that functioning spillover just as bad as you do. I just gave up hoping, that's all.
 
killo said:
We just need that the spillover delay block takes the settings from the previous preset at the moment of the switch.

@Dpoirier: everyone want a hundred milion dollars, but here we are not talking about an impossibile feature. We have Vocoder, Ring Modulator, Resonator, Synth, Formant, Quad Chorus ecc....but we don't have a fully working spillover...

Please Cliff tell us if it's possible to implement this function. Thank you!
Click to expand...

Not that I wouldn't really like to see something like this but, it probably not going to happen. From what has been said in the past the standard doesn't have enough memory for another block and I doubt the Ultra does either. I don't think there is enough memory to implement this. It has been a wish list item for a VERY long time with virtually no one opposing it. If it was as doable as you think it is, it would probably have been done many firmwares ago.
 
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