Wrecker now a wreck IMHO [solved]

I'll be curious to see what comes of the Komet and Ruby cloned Trainwreck style amps Cliff's been working with.
 
I was just showing a friend of mine my axefx and we came here looking for info on an amp he liked. He was asking me how the forum treats new owners/members and this thread is a great example of how people are here to help!
 
I think V10 will eventually earn the epic status it deserves. Great thing are always slow to greatness.

I played a show last night using a 50w Marshall preset off the exchange. I did modify it heavily pryor to using, but the basics were there.
The sound was awsome on stage and through FOH. Killer sound wow.

Still not what I was used to with V8, but the juice is definitly in there and more with V10.



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Stratman68 said:
And quite honestly I am much more comfortable tweaking in the editor so I guess I am just out of luck. Sad day for me.
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If none of those things work, you could always roll back to 7 or 8 (whichever was the last one that worked with the old Axe Edit). I know it feels like a big step back, but system 6 had just been released when I bought my Axe, and I remember thinking at the time that nothing could top system 7, so it's not like your Axe is gonna be suddenly pre-historic or something.

Personally, I'm digging 10, though I think that one Sunday coming up, once I've got my 10 presets where I think they ought to be, I'm gonna record some bits with the patches I use most, then roll back to 9 and do the same thing with the equivalents, so I can A/B them.
 
eljodon said:
I own a Vox Ac30 and I was disappointed with FW 9 which was around the time I upgraded to Axe Fx 2.
With FW 10 is a lot more accurate to my ears
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My ah-ha! moment with V10 was when our worship leader brought in his Strat & AC30 one day (he usually plays acoustic). It's a modern AC30 & he runs the Strat with volume & tone wide open, bridge pickup mostly. I was training on the soundboard and when he started playing some hard rhythm chords, his guitar took over the mix - swamped the lead guitar and even walked all over his vocals. I solo'd his guitar channel and it was the most obnoxious thing I'd ever heard - full bacon (sizzle for the rest of you). That's when I realized that what Cliff had done is make the Axe sound just like a close mic'd guitar cab. Unfortunately, that sound needs to be tamed for a good mix. We didn't have time to adjust things on his end, so I just dropped a PEQ on it with a deep, narrow notch and swept through the frequencies until I killed the sizzle without taking away the characteristic sound of the AC30. Huge difference. Dropped into the mix nicely & everyone was happy. Even the lead guitarist asked what I had done to his tone, 'cause it sounded better now. :)

I really think the key to getting "polished" tones from V10 is to use the producer mix IRs and then add some studio compression and maybe PEQ for high gain tones.
 
RDH said:
Never owned or played through a real AC30,Could I ask what settings you use on the real amp? I've found it needs more treble than before v10 and different IR mixes ,but its working well for me.
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The real AC 30 can be bright depending on what speakers you use. It also needs a boost if you need to get some distortion, but that also depends on what tubes you use.
For a dirty tone I set the treble at half or a bit higher, if you turn the bass to high the AC 30 can get muddy so I usually run it at 11 o'clock.
The gain about 3/4 and the master also at 3/4.
It also has a tone cut which I usually at the brightest setting. I also use a 10 band eq to smooth out the distortion by boosting 500 Hz and 1 kHz by 1 db. I use an OCD to get more gain out of it.
For cleans I just lower the gain to 1/2 or 1/4 and boost the treble a bit.
I owned various Vox amps and they all sound different depending on which model and year.
Some sound really good and some just ok.Hope this helps.
 
Phostenix said:
That's when I realized that what Cliff had done is make the Axe sound just like a close mic'd guitar cab.
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that thought isn't entirely accurate. Cliff modeled the amps to sound exactly like the amps. if anything sounds "close mic'ed" it's because of the IR being used. if you, for example, use one from Redwirez with the mic placed further away it won't be so "close mic'ed" sounding. it's all down to the IRs now which is great imho as we can trust in the amps to actually sound like the amps to start with...
 
eljodon said:
The real AC 30 can be bright depending on what speakers you use. It also needs a boost if you need to get some distortion, but that also depends on what tubes you use.
For a dirty tone I set the treble at half or a bit higher, if you turn the bass to high the AC 30 can get muddy so I usually run it at 11 o'clock.
The gain about 3/4 and the master also at 3/4.
It also has a tone cut which I usually at the brightest setting. I also use a 10 band eq to smooth out the distortion by boosting 500 Hz and 1 kHz by 1 db. I use an OCD to get more gain out of it.
For cleans I just lower the gain to 1/2 or 1/4 and boost the treble a bit.
I owned various Vox amps and they all sound different depending on which model and year.
Some sound really good and some just ok.Hope this helps.
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Thank You ! Great info!!!
 
While I don't need this; maybe for the users that like the more polished sound Cliff could add a "Polished" setting to the Amp Voicing setting. And let it do several of the recommendations here in the advanced settings to get a more polished studio sound. But then again this is where the a nicely incorporated Axe-Change into Axe-Edit would be nice.
 
jeppekristoffer said:
Try reducing definition and set character value to 1-2 and character frequency to lowest possible.
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That definitely makes a difference, especially the definition-I am in the - range now-but getting closer to what I had. I am playing all Strats. some SC HB and some Fralin VH, fende Cs 50's.
 
Actually I love V10. The Dumbles, Blueoj whatever and Brit silver are fabulous. So are many fenders. But the wrecker has been my go to. It really was the only one that drastically changed.

Had no idea definition and character were even there. Helped a lot.
I am going to try a few other cabs-but I am already back in the ballpark just with the definition and character-amazing. Thanks for all the input guys
 
lol :) Guys who are talking about polished tones: Axe is not a cofee machine it is sound tool. And polished tone is the local term wich applies to the situation. If you wand to remove something from the tone - just use wide possibilities OPENED by FAS technology. It is much better to understand what actually "polished" means from the POV of sound engeneer. The more different qulityes and harmonics the source sound has the more possibilityes to shape it you have.

Guys just stop think about it like you have the real amp and pedalboard. now we can be FREE - and do some earlier impossible stuff. It IS NOT the real amp and that is why its much better! :)

Place PEQ or GEQ anywhere. F.e place GEQ inbetween of amp and cab and then shape the sound - you can remove some resonances from cab.
Place PEQ before amp - find some unpleasant resonance that come from the instrument or drive and remove it.
Place PEQ in the end of a chain to glue the sound and make suttle shaping.

I learned some tricks from Devin Thounsand preset where he use cascade of 4 PEQ.
 
The Wrecker model is virtually unchanged from V9. I think the only significant changes were the Triode Hardness and the Transformer Match. For the V9 sound set Triode Hardness to 0 and increase Transformer Match. Triode Hardness is probably not very noticeable but Transformer Match makes a pretty big difference.
 
VegaBaby said:
that thought isn't entirely accurate. Cliff modeled the amps to sound exactly like the amps. if anything sounds "close mic'ed" it's because of the IR being used. if you, for example, use one from Redwirez with the mic placed further away it won't be so "close mic'ed" sounding. it's all down to the IRs now which is great imho as we can trust in the amps to actually sound like the amps to start with...
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Yes, you are correct. But, it someone uses a "typical" close mic'd IR, especially one made with an SM57 on an amp model with distortion, it will now sound like the raw signal from an SM57 in front of a real speaker cab. Not only are most of us guitar players not used to hearing that sound, we don't like it when we do. :)

I don't think it's coincidental that V10 came with a new set of producer mix IRs and that many of the old IRs were reworked and that Cliff keeps saying that we need to pay more attention to using IRs to get the tone we want now. Cliff surely knew that if we got V10 with the same old IRs, people would flip out about all the sizzle.

I've been reading some lately about recording techniques for electric guitar to see what sound guys do when they record real amps. I've tried some of the techniques in the Axe & find that they transfer very well with V10.
 
I just compared the model to the V9 version. Four things changed:
Triode Hardness, was equivalent to 0.0.
XFRMR HF, was 15,000
XFRMR Match was higher, set this to 1.4 to replicate V9.
The level into the power amp was lower. Set the MV Trim to 0.67 to replicate this.

Now, the V10 model assumes 6V6 power tubes (tetrodes). These will be harsher than EL34s. If you want the softer breakup of EL34s set the Pwr Tube Type to Pentode. V9 power amp modeling was similar to Pentode.

If you make these changes it should sound virtually identical. If you also set the Global Modeling Version to 9.xx it WILL be identical.
 
I always use a parametric or graphic eq as the first block of my signal chain and always a parametric at the end using 1 and 4 as a high pass and low pass filter. I sometime cut 2kHz using a fairly narrow q . I also do this when I record real amps. Using an eq on the front end of the amps helps to shape the distortion.
When I'm mixing I do the same thing which helps so the guitar doesn't fight with other instruments.
 
FractalAudio said:
I just compared the model to the V9 version. Four things changed:
Triode Hardness, was equivalent to 0.0.
XFRMR HF, was 15,000
XFRMR Match was higher, set this to 1.4 to replicate V9.
The level into the power amp was lower. Set the MV Trim to 0.67 to replicate this.

Now, the V10 model assumes 6V6 power tubes (tetrodes). These will be harsher than EL34s. If you want the softer breakup of EL34s set the Pwr Tube Type to Pentode. V9 power amp modeling was similar to Pentode.

If you make these changes it should sound virtually identical. If you also set the Global Modeling Version to 9.xx it WILL be identical.
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Wow,this is, what i call HELP! :)
 
Wow I wonder if that clues us into making other amps sound like v9 for those who need it.
 
FractalAudio said:
I just compared the model to the V9 version. Four things changed:
Triode Hardness, was equivalent to 0.0.
XFRMR HF, was 15,000
XFRMR Match was higher, set this to 1.4 to replicate V9.
The level into the power amp was lower. Set the MV Trim to 0.67 to replicate this.

Now, the V10 model assumes 6V6 power tubes (tetrodes). These will be harsher than EL34s. If you want the softer breakup of EL34s set the Pwr Tube Type to Pentode. V9 power amp modeling was similar to Pentode.

If you make these changes it should sound virtually identical. If you also set the Global Modeling Version to 9.xx it WILL be identical.
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Thanks Cliff-I like FW10-so I have taken all the suggestions for the wrecker and I am fine with it-Thank you very much for chiming in and helping an old rocker out. The MV was way up- I probably did that -not intentionally-much better back where you stated.
 
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