What do people mean when they say modelers "lack the amp feel"?

[marsonic]

Just regular vi (view for those not in the Unix verse) is king. I came from before the gui and vim is a luxury. Knowing jilxrR :wq! is essential. LOL

Vim is still console, fwiw.

There's a reason I didn't say gVim. Though...I do use gVim on Windows on occasion, because that's what shows up in the right-click menu in Explorer. It's better than nothing.

@empinchen, I assume you're the emacs user?

ETA: I'll stop.

 

[JoKeR III]

...and yet another thread finds a rabbit hole to spiral down...

 

[jamesmarshall]

Vim is still console, fwiw.

There's a reason I didn't say gVim. Though...I do use gVim on Windows on occasion, because that's what shows up in the right-click menu in Explorer. It's better than nothing.

@empinchen, I assume you're the emacs user?

ETA: I'll stop.

Yes, I know, there was sarcasm in there... Prolly should have put in the old {SARCASM} {/SARCASM}.. LOL

However gvim didn't start out as a gui. GNU was part of the original Linux and gvim started out as an improvement upon VIM and when xfce took off ('96) gvim became gui(ized).

 

[Orvillain]

a 100W tube amp is more like 3-400W SS equivalent so that makes sense

Nonsense. A watt is a watt.

 

[Budda]

Nonsense. A watt is a watt.

The difference is you can get 5 100W amps on a bench and get 5 different actual wattage ratings.

SIgned, a 130W JCM800 2203 benched clean

 

[Orvillain]

The difference is you can get 5 100W amps on a bench and get 5 different actual wattage ratings.

SIgned, a 130W JCM800 2203 benched clean

Of course. Many "100watt" amps can put out much more at full tilt. But a watt is still a watt

 

[Budda]

Of course. Many "100watt" amps can put out much more at full tilt. But a watt is still a watt

If the 100W tube hits 130W and the 100W SS stays 100W, that's a 30W difference. I can't think of another way to say it. Yes a watt is a watt - so knowing the actual measurements is important.

 

[Sorenspete]

The same guys who say this can't even tell the difference in a blind test.

 

[unix-guy]

Yes, I know, there was sarcasm in there... Prolly should have put in the old {SARCASM} {/SARCASM}.. LOL

However gvim didn't start out as a gui. GNU was part of the original Linux and gvim started out as an improvement upon VIM and when xfce took off ('96) gvim became gui(ized).

Not to further derail the thread, but do you have a reference for that? I've been a Unix and Linux guy for a pretty long time and I've never heard that mentioned before.

The history of some of this stuff is interesting...

 

[northern_fox]

Nonsense. A watt is a watt.

Okay but I'm sure you know what I meant by that

 

[empinchen]

@empinchen, I assume you're the emacs user?

Used to be. Nowadays it's Intellij IDEA and VSCode.
But let's not derail this thread an further.

 

[laxu]

If the 100W tube hits 130W and the 100W SS stays 100W, that's a 30W difference. I can't think of another way to say it. Yes a watt is a watt - so knowing the actual measurements is important.

Total harmonic distortion matters. A watt is a watt if both amps are producing say the same THD. That 100W tube amp amp produces 130W at something like 10% THD and the solid-state stops at 100W at maybe 1% THD.

That's why ratings can be deceptive when tube amps are rated for low THD but can also be run with high THD. At least for guitar amps we don't see things like "150 watts MUSIC POWER!" bullshit anymore.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Back to the subject;
If you set up a great tube amp in a studio and mike it up no fx then play in the control room through the monitors it is indistinguishable from the Axe through the same monitors.
BUT no FR FR is capable of the experience of plugging directly in to that same great amp and standing three feet away.
The thing that Cliff mentioned about volume is super important too because if you turn down the tube amp you are affecting everything about it's response and sound but most of us turn down the Axe with the totally neutral ( compared anyway ) output volume preserving the character of the loud amp. This and the piss poor FR FR options account for the difference in tone AND feel that is definitely there.
Fractal please either design, make or collaborate with a company to produce a decent FR FR with dedicated software to maximise this way of using it. All the available (and unavailable) ones I have tried are not able to reproduce the almost three dimensional sound and incredible sensitivity of even a vintage Fender never mind a D style.
I want to state again that I think this is 100% a FR FR problem.

 

[cole lewis]

Which FRFR have you tried so far Andy?

My Xitone's sound/respond fantastic to me. However I have only tried them and none of the other options out there.

Personally I think after a while you just get used to the response of FRFR speakers over guitar speakers. It's not the same but it's good enough I guess?

 

[Andy Eagle]

Which FRFR have you tried so far Andy?

My Xitone's sound/respond fantastic to me. However I have only tried them and none of the other options out there.

Personally I think after a while you just get used to the response of FRFR speakers over guitar speakers. It's not the same but it's good enough I guess?

Various EV monitors ,CLRs, Xitone, Redsound, Line 6, Headrush, Matrix, Mission. I use a Matrix GT1000FX 2u and Xitone passives with F12X200 speakers at the moment and that is the best I have come across. I hate class D amps, total garbage for feel.

 

[cole lewis]

Various EV monitors ,CLRs, Xitone, Redsound, Line 6, Headrush, Matrix, Mission. I use a Matrix GT1000FX 2u and Xitone passives with F12X200 speakers at the moment and that is the best I have come across. I hate class D amps, total garbage for feel.

For some strange reason I decided to go with the Powerstage 700 to power mine. I regretted not going with the Matrix, pretty much instantly.

You really hear a difference between them?

 

[Justmc]

Various EV monitors ,CLRs, Xitone, Redsound, Line 6, Headrush, Matrix, Mission. I use a Matrix GT1000FX 2u and Xitone passives with F12X200 speakers at the moment and that is the best I have come across. I hate class D amps, total garbage for feel.

I'm using my Matrix Gt1000fx to feed 1 or 2 passive wedges from Xitone with factory speakers. Over all I'm happy with the set up since I like having the versatility of using a guitar cab if that's all that is available sometimes ... ie in some rehearsal spots....of If I'm in the mood... Have all my AxeFx presets set up for dual output. Was looking at the F12x200 retrofit but most of the documentation I saw recomended a Celestion designed ported style cabinet...

I agree whole - heartedly that the FRFR world will be the next big leap in the modeling world... Looking forward to it.

 

[cole lewis]

I'm using my Matrix Gt1000fx to feed 1 or 2 passive wedges from Xitone with factory speakers. Over all I'm happy with the set up since I like having the versatility of using a guitar cab if that's all that is available sometimes ... ie in some rehearsal spots....of If I'm in the mood... Have all my AxeFx presets set up for dual output. Was looking at the F12x200 retrofit but most of the documentation I saw recomended a Celestion designed ported style cabinet...

I agree whole - heartedly that the FRFR world will be the next big leap in the modeling world... Looking forward to it.

You can have someone like Zilla build you those 1x12's in Celestions spec, if you want.

 

[Justmc]

You can have someone like Zilla build you those 1x12's in Celestions spec, if you want.

Thanks for the heads up... Not sure if i want to go down that rabbit hole yet... Will be on the lookout to hear one in person.

 

[marsonic]

Used to be. Nowadays it's Intellij IDEA and VSCode.
But let's not derail this thread an further.

Sounds good. I was just kidding anyway.

Editor wars are nothing but good fun as far as I'm concerned.

Personally I think after a while you just get used to the response of FRFR speakers over guitar speakers. It's not the same but it's good enough I guess?

I think that might be part of it. Somewhere (maybe ITT) I posted the story of how I got used to IEMs. Do they feel the same once you tweak the output compression for the room volume? Frankly....I don't even know anymore. But, the sound is inspiring, my guitars still "sing" and vibrate basically how they always do, and the overall experience is better in terms of me getting lost in the music.

The sound differs from time to time, but that's because there are a few different "things" that I like about different guitar setups that people don't even describe the same way. The vague "drip" thing that you hear most often from an edge of breakup strat tone, the "thump" from smacking a power chord, the sustain-y vocal-y legato from sliding along a string, etc.. They all seem like they're more related to playing than anything else, and you can get them on any guitar....but it seems like certain amps make one or another a bit easier to coax out of it. My world also changed the first day I got that drippy thing out of a Les Paul.

So...I kinda get it. I'm not really even sure that many people can really articulate what "amp feel" is....which is why I asked the question about a deaf person feeling something under their fingers. No one really answered it. I think "feel" is really sound and comes from a weird coincidence of factors that people like but don't really know how to repeat. So...when things change, they don't know how to get it back and they assume that gear they're trying can't do it.