Tuner: disable offsets when setting intonation?

[Dpoirier]

I'm about to set the intonation on my guitar using the Axe-fX tuner (which now seems accurate enough for a home-made intonation job).

My guitar has a Buzz-Feiten system... so I normally use the tuner offsets that were published here.

The question is: when setting the intonation, do you use the offsets or not?

My first thought was to diable the offsets, set the intonation, and re-enable the offsets for the final tuning when I'm finished with the intonation. However, the Buzz-Feiten system includes some physical differences, I think (i.e. first-fret's distance to nut)... so perhaps I *do* have to use the offsets when setting intonation...

Anyone know for sure?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Bakerman]

Have you seen that there are suggested intonation offsets as well as tuning offsets? At least that's what's listed in the patent:

              Tuning offsets         Intonation offsets
                 (cents)             l2th fret (cents)
                  E+00                     E+00
                  B+01                     B+00
                  G-02                     G+01
                  D-02                     D+01
                  A-02                     A+00
                  E-02                     E+00

The patent's description is kind of unclear but I think the intent is getting the guitar in a state where you'd see all those values on a normal tuner. So to match that table you want the open G and 12th fret G to be 1203 cents apart, for example. To do that w/ the Axe you could set the G offset to -3 cents, tune the open string, then disable offsets and check the 12th fret. (For that string you wouldn't really need to disable offsets because it will use the high E offset for higher notes.) Or you could forget about actual offsets on the Axe and use the fact that 1 cent = 1 pixel.

 

[wezx]

Keep in mind...another way that is recommended by the Buzz Feiten folks to tune after you've set your BF offsets...is to not have any tuner offsets (all set to "0") and tune each string to "E" (high "E" open, "B" string 5th fret, "G" string 9th fret, "D" string 14th fret, "A" string 7th fret, low "E" open). Been using the offsets and tuning that way for years. I only worry about the offsets when setting intonation.

 

[Sixstring]

As accurate as the Axe tuner is I still like to use a strobe to set intonation. It would be nice if the Axe had a strobe style tuner that used a large majority of the screen.

 

[wezx]

Have you seen that TC Electronics tuner that tunes all six strings at once? I wonder if that would be possible to implement in the Axe-fx or if it would need a new screen to accommodate something like that?

 

[laxu]

As accurate as the Axe tuner is I still like to use a strobe to set intonation. It would be nice if the Axe had a strobe style tuner that used a large majority of the screen.

I agree. I think that's pretty high on the wish list too.

 

[Tremonti]

I believe the EARVANA nut to be more accurate and you don't have to use a crazy tuning system. Not that it helps you if you already have a guitar with a Buzz Feiten system....just my 2 cents though......

 

[wezx]

What most people fail to realize is that these "crazy tuning systems" have been in use for hundreds of years...they're called "Temperments". Ever play a piano or a keyboard?...you've used a temperment. All modern pianos are "tempered-tuned"...you can still call up non-tempered patches on some synths...they sound very strange to our Western ears. The purpose is that mathematically perfect scales don't sound right to our ears, so various scales degrees are altered to accommodate our ears. The Earvana and the Buzz Feiten and fanned fretboards, etc. are all attempts to "temper" the guitar, which is of course difficult because it is not a one string per note instrument like a piano. The Buzz Feiten offsets are no more "crazy" then setting your intonation at a "zero" point. Once my intonation is set I simply tune every string to "E" as explained above...works like a charm.

Use what you like...

 

[thehunter]

Does this same system apply to alternate tunnings?

If im tunning to D a whole step from E do i need to tune all strings to D to be accurate in intonation.

I am still unclear how to use the offsets to my advantage. I have a normal stop tail, tune o matic gibson bridge, will i need to use offsets?

Can any one lend me some help while im trying to intonate with the AXE, i have tried and tried to intonate, been on a thousand sites but i still am missing the concept or an accurate tuner or both, so plz assist.

Now that I have the AXE I am willing to try again with its tuner but i need some direction before i begin....

Thanks

D

 

[Bakerman]

Does this same system apply to alternate tunnings?

If im tunning to D a whole step from E do i need to tune all strings to D to be accurate in intonation.

I am still unclear how to use the offsets to my advantage. I have a normal stop tail, tune o matic gibson bridge, will i need to use offsets?

Can any one lend me some help while im trying to intonate with the AXE, i have tried and tried to intonate, been on a thousand sites but i still am missing the concept or an accurate tuner or both, so plz assist.

Now that I have the AXE I am willing to try again with its tuner but i need some direction before i begin....

Thanks

D

I wouldn't worry about offsets unless you notice a specific issue like the lowest frets being sharp on a certain string. Say the 1st fret read 4 cents sharp--maybe you'd prefer to tune the open string to -2 cents and make the 1st fret become +2 cents. Or if you care about one specific chord form being closer to pure intervals, you could improve it at the expense of other forms.

Usually I intonate by tuning open strings to 0 cents, setting saddles so the highest fret reads 0 cents on every string, then checking if any string strays from 0 toward lower frets. If it does I'll usually move the saddle to bring that area closer to 0, even though that will move the highest frets away from 0.

 

[wezx]

If you can play first position G, C, D, E, etc. full chords without being bothered by intonation issues between the chords then don't worry about intonation offsets or tempering. If it does bother you (or has always bothered you) then you will want to use some intonation offsets.

 

[thehunter]

Ok cool, i think i understand now.

I have a brand new guitar that is intonated to perfection but my older Gibby is a little outta whack and i want to get it back into intonation. I dont chord a whole lot but it kills me when i use both guitars for multi tracking and i can tell that its off especially when power chording or even some single note riffs.

I wont worry about offsets right now i will just try to get it as close to intonation as possible.

Any tips for picking technique when intonating (soft picking vs hard picking), do i use the 1 sec rule and use the ring out note or go by the first pluck.
Is there a position (Bridge pup vs neck pup) that is more accurate?

Any tips at all will help.

Much appreciated.

:mrgreen:

 

[Dpoirier]

...
Any tips for picking technique when intonating (soft picking vs hard picking), do i use the 1 sec rule and use the ring out note or go by the first pluck.
Is there a position (Bridge pup vs neck pup) that is more accurate?

Any tips at all will help.

Much appreciated.

:mrgreen:

Those are good questions... I noticed that the first pluck is sharp when I set the steady-state (1 second later) intonation dead-on. Or vice-versa: if I set the first pluck dead-on, then a second later, it's flat. I don't know which one I'm supposed to tune to...

I don't see any difference with neck versus bridge, but I typically use my neck pickup (which, I find, gives me a more pure tone, with less harmonic content, and probably more suitable for tuning / intonation purposes... though I have no knowledge or references to back up that suspicion).