Trs unbalanced vs xlr balanced cables for recording direct.

[rockguitarist1255]

Okay so i run pro tools 9 windows 7 64 bit. I usually record in 96k then mix down to 44. I want to be able to just simply record the axe fx without any hassle. I had some people tell me to do direct in with the usb, which is fine, but i also like to experiment with different ways of recording to find the best way. Like i said, i want to record the axe fx direct, while still using my pro tools mbox as the interface. An idea i had today was to connect a trs cable on the unbalanced output 1 of my axe fx, into a line in cable on my pro tools mbox. That can record, except i have to deal with the output setting on the axe fx, along with the input gain setting on the pro tools mbox. I would use 2 trs cabls to record in stereo, but i could only find 1 at the moment. Anyway, my other idea was to record with the balaned xlr outputs of the axe fx in to my xlr inputs on my pro tools mbox and record in stereo. Im guessing i would have to deal with the gain settings on both again but whatever. Does that make any difference in sound, and will usb be the best way to record direct, or does it not matter? I just want a straightforward way to record the axe fx 2. I still want to use my pro tools mbox however just because its easier to manage my other tracks like drums, without having to use the axe fx as an interface. I like the mbox because with the axe fx as an interface, i have to use the output knob as the volume, which i dont like because it makes the drums a high volume but the guitat is kind of soft, and with the mbox i can control the volume without any hassles.

 

[Jiffzillla]

If you're dead set on recording at 96k, then you want to use one of the Axe's analog outs. The Axe's sample rate is fixed at 48k, so unless you wanna drop your sessions down to match the Axe, you're kinda stuck. For what it's worth, I record the Axe from the XLR outs (output 1) into my Digi 003. However I do use an XLR to TRS adapter cable so I can bypass the 003's pres and not get any coloration. I did this with my Ultra too. Sounds great to me.

 

[rockguitarist1255]

If you're dead set on recording at 96k, then you want to use one of the Axe's analog outs. The Axe's sample rate is fixed at 48k, so unless you wanna drop your sessions down to match the Axe, you're kinda stuck. For what it's worth, I record the Axe from the XLR outs (output 1) into my Digi 003. However I do use an XLR to TRS adapter cable so I can bypass the 003's pres and not get any coloration. I did this with my Ultra too. Sounds great to me.

So does it sound fine to you if i get two xlr cables, then 2 xlr to trs adapter cables and then run them into my line in inputs on my mbox to record in stereo? And if i may ask, im still new to recording, how does using a trs cable bypass any sound or make it better than just using the straight xlr?

 

[Drama]

Mic Preamps can add their own coloration to the sound.

If your inputs on the interface are balanced inputs, get an xlr to balanced Jack cable and use the xlr outs on the Axe, if they're not balanced inputs, use the unbalanced jack outs of the Axe with J-J cables.

I'm not familiar with your interface but on the Ensemble, I have the inputs I use set as +4dbu inputs and I run the Axe output dial at maximum. I then get my recording levels using the mixer in the patches. I usually aim to hit the meters in Logic at around -15 to -12db leaving me plenty of headroom for mixing and mastering.

As I said in your other post, I record my tracks mono, I don't use stereo effects so that's not a factor and I always at least double my guitar tracks and hard pan them, sometimes quad track.

Hope that kinda helps a little.

 

[rockguitarist1255]

Mic Preamps can add their own coloration to the sound.

If your inputs on the interface are balanced inputs, get an xlr to balanced Jack cable and use the xlr outs on the Axe, if they're not balanced inputs, use the unbalanced jack outs of the Axe with J-J cables.

I'm not familiar with your interface but on the Ensemble, I have the inputs I use set as +4dbu inputs and I run the Axe output dial at maximum. I then get my recording levels using the mixer in the patches. I usually aim to hit the meters in Logic at around -15 to -12db leaving me plenty of headroom for mixing and mastering.

As I said in your other post, I record my tracks mono, I don't use stereo effects so that's not a factor and I always at least double my guitar tracks and hard pan them, sometimes quad track.

Hope that kinda helps a little.

Yes thank you that does help. Im just trying to decide if i wanna use your xlr cable method or just direct in with the usb and use the axe fx as the interface itself. Another guy said its fine to record at 48k, since the 24 bit is still present, which i guess makes a bigger difference. But yeah if i understand correctly ill have to use my balanced input jacks in my mbox with two xlr to trs balanced cables running from the axe fx xlr out to my mic/line inputs on my mbox, since the xlr and trs cable inputs are in one plug, and theres two inputs. So even though i do have xlr inputs on my mbox, ill just use the trs inputs coming out of them like you said since they are balanced. And when i did try to record the axe fx at full output volume, my gain on my pro tools meter went really high and got distorted. Would that be something id wanna fix using the mbox gain settings themselves, or the mixer and volume settings on each axe fx patch i wanna record with? I just wanna make sureso i get the best possible sound. And i would like to thank you again for your help as im still really new to recording.

 

[Drama]

The volume thing is most likely that the inputs are set to mic level on the interface. You could go ahead and decrease this in your interface, or, optimally (at least from my experience) is if you have the option on the interface, set those inputs to be +4dbu line inputs rather than mic inputs. You'll have no control of the levels via the interface but you won't need it. You can get your levels via the patches.

An important thing to remember in your recording is to leave yourself headroom. -12 on the meters in your DAW is plenty loud enough, if you need more volume while you track, turn up the monitors.

I also wouldn't over think the whole 44, 48, 96khz issue. I record at 44 myself a lot of the time, occasionally 48 but never had a need for higher.

 

[Jiffzillla]

So does it sound fine to you if i get two xlr cables, then 2 xlr to trs adapter cables and then run them into my line in inputs on my mbox to record in stereo? And if i may ask, im still new to recording, how does using a trs cable bypass any sound or make it better than just using the straight xlr?

On my particular interface, (Digi 003 Factory control surface) inputs 1-4 have XLR inputs and mic pres on them. (Not to mention that these inputs are expecting to see mic level. The Axe II spits out line level.) Inputs 5-8 are 1/4 inch balanced TRS inputs. Both are balanced inputs, but if I use an input (or pair of them for stereo recording) without a mic pre, I don't have to worry about that mic pre potentially changing the sound of my Axe II. It's just one less thing to try and hunt down while tweaking your sound for recording. Which model of the Mbox do you have? I could take a look at it and recommend an input/output scenario if you like.

 

[rockguitarist1255]

On my particular interface, (Digi 003 Factory control surface) inputs 1-4 have XLR inputs and mic pres on them. (Not to mention that these inputs are expecting to see mic level. The Axe II spits out line level.) Inputs 5-8 are 1/4 inch balanced TRS inputs. Both are balanced inputs, but if I use an input (or pair of them for stereo recording) without a mic pre, I don't have to worry about that mic pre potentially changing the sound of my Axe II. It's just one less thing to try and hunt down while tweaking your sound for recording. Which model of the Mbox do you have? I could take a look at it and recommend an input/output scenario if you like.

I have the pro tools mbox 3rd generation. Just the regular mbox. If i use an xlr cable to trs adapter, then run two of them into my pro tools mbox, would that bypass the mic pres? Cause i ran an xlr coming out of the axe fx balanced and attached an xlr to trs adapter and put it in the line input of the mbox, but i can still control the gain know on it so i dont know if that bypasses the mic or not.

 

[barhrecords]

I have the pro tools mbox 3rd generation. Just the regular mbox. If i use an xlr cable to trs adapter, then run two of them into my pro tools mbox, would that bypass the mic pres? Cause i ran an xlr coming out of the axe fx balanced and attached an xlr to trs adapter and put it in the line input of the mbox, but i can still control the gain know on it so i dont know if that bypasses the mic or not.

It looks like from the specs your analog choices are:

AxeFx II Output 2 L/R -> 1/4 unbalanced -> Instrument in 1/2 MBox

AxeFx II Output 1 L/R -> XLR balanced -> Mic in 1/2 MBox

AxeFx II Output 1 L/R -> XLR balanced to 1/4 TRS -> Line in 1/2 MBox

http://www.avid.com/static/resource...Avid_Mbox_3rdGen-family_spec-comparison-1.pdf

I would try them all just to see, but it doesn't look like the XLR vs. the 1/4" balanced input is going to not work for you.

Richard

 

[rockguitarist1255]

It looks like from the specs your analog choices are:

AxeFx II Output 2 L/R -> 1/4 unbalanced -> Instrument in 1/2 MBox

AxeFx II Output 1 L/R -> XLR balanced -> Mic in 1/2 MBox

AxeFx II Output 1 L/R -> XLR balanced to 1/4 TRS -> Line in 1/2 MBox

http://www.avid.com/static/resource...Avid_Mbox_3rdGen-family_spec-comparison-1.pdf

I would try them all just to see, but it doesn't look like the XLR vs. the 1/4" balanced input is going to not work for you.

Richard

What is the difference between the balanced output and the unbalanced output? Would it make a difference which one i use? And if i use the instrument 1/2 inputs, would that be with a regular cable or a trs? And if i use the xlr to trs cable, would that bypass the preamps? Which one do you think would be the best?

 

[barhrecords]

What is the difference between the balanced output and the unbalanced output? Would it make a difference which one i use? And if i use the instrument 1/2 inputs, would that be with a regular cable or a trs? And if i use the xlr to trs cable, would that bypass the preamps? Which one do you think would be the best?

IMO, the AxeFx II's audio quality is way beyond the MBox. All the outputs are really hi-fi and quiet. The unbalanced outs might give you grief if you put your gear into some kind of RF or magnetic field etc. like near a big computer monitor etc. That's why I said try it and compare what sounds best with your setup, room, cables etc.


Don't have the manual but from the online specs, it looks like the MBox XLR input with the mic gain at zero is similar to the line input.

If it were me I would use XLR -> TRS cables and go line in. But I already own cables like that so YMMV.

Just try the different options. It doesn't take very long and you will know what sounds best to you and be done wit it.

Richard

 

[rockguitarist1255]

IMO, the AxeFx II's audio quality is way beyond the MBox. All the outputs are really hi-fi and quiet. The unbalanced outs might give you grief if you put your gear into some kind of RF or magnetic field etc. like near a big computer monitor etc. That's why I said try it and compare what sounds best with your setup, room, cables etc.


Don't have the manual but from the online specs, it looks like the MBox XLR input with the mic gain at zero is similar to the line input.

If it were me I would use XLR -> TRS cables and go line in. But I already own cables like that so YMMV.

Just try the different options. It doesn't take very long and you will know what sounds best to you and be done wit it.

Richard

Okay and if i do decide to have 2 xlr to trs cables running out from the axe fx into my mbox, and set both gain levels on the mbox to zero, would i wanna run the output of the axe fx knob at full? I heard someone say to do that, and then control my volume of patches using the mixer in the patches themselves. I tried that but i dont knwo if im suppose to use mixer knob on that patches or the volume of the amps themselves. Or would i just want to control the volume with the output knob?

 

[barhrecords]

Okay and if i do decide to have 2 xlr to trs cables running out from the axe fx into my mbox, and set both gain levels on the mbox to zero, would i wanna run the output of the axe fx knob at full? I heard someone say to do that, and then control my volume of patches using the mixer in the patches themselves. I tried that but i dont knwo if im suppose to use mixer knob on that patches or the volume of the amps themselves. Or would i just want to control the volume with the output knob?

How do you record other sources other than the Axe Fx?

Richard

 

[rockguitarist1255]

How do you record other sources other than the Axe Fx?

Richard

I actually just use addictive drums and edit the midi myself, and record the guitar and bass with the axe fx, and the keyboard with an m audio keyboard and vst's, and the vocals with a microphone running into the mbox. I would use the axe fx itself to record direct, but then i have an issue with recording at 48k cuz it seems so odd, even though i mix down to 44k. I understand that usb probably would be the best way to get the full stereo sound, but again i like the mbox as an interface because if i use the axe fx as an interface, the output knob control the output of my drums, and then they either get too loud and the guitar gets too soft or vice versa. If you have any tips or suggestions on how to record with the usb and having the levels set i would appreciate that and might consider recording that way. People told me that recording in 48 really doesnt make any difference, since the audio from the axe fx would be 24 bit still. I honestly dont really know much about frequency in recording as it confuses and frustrates me with things.

 

[barhrecords]

Hope this isn't too obvious of an explanation but...

Once you have a track recorded, Pro Tools lets you vary the volume in respect to the other tracks.

So you should be able to get the drums, guitars, vox, etc. louder or softer as needed after the tracking.

If that is something you didn't know, you should probably do some simple Pro Tools tutorials on mixing first.

Richard

 

[rockguitarist1255]

Lol ive been so caught up between which way to record as well as which frequency that i forgot you could do that. Actually that would be easy if i just use the axe fx as the interface and record at 48k. I guess that would be fine since i could just switch my interface to the mbox for vocals, since i really only need it for vocals anyway, everything else is either vst or axe fx. Ill experiment with xlr to trs, but actually recording with the axe fx as the interface seems to give it the truest sound. But if you dont mind me asking, if i use the axe fx as an interface, would i want to put the output knob at full and record that way and use the mixer itself to adjust volume levels, or just control the volume levels themselves with the output knob instead of running it at full. I read in the manual it said to run the knob at full for unity gain, but i dont know if i need that or not.

 

[barhrecords]

Lol ive been so caught up between which way to record as well as which frequency that i forgot you could do that. Actually that would be easy if i just use the axe fx as the interface and record at 48k. I guess that would be fine since i could just switch my interface to the mbox for vocals, since i really only need it for vocals anyway, everything else is either vst or axe fx. Ill experiment with xlr to trs, but actually recording with the axe fx as the interface seems to give it the truest sound. But if you dont mind me asking, if i use the axe fx as an interface, would i want to put the output knob at full and record that way and use the mixer itself to adjust volume levels, or just control the volume levels themselves with the output knob instead of running it at full. I read in the manual it said to run the knob at full for unity gain, but i dont know if i need that or not.

I haven't messed with the USB output much.

The Axe II analog outs fit into my Pro Tools rigs easier / faster and sound fantastic. I use the balanced outputs -> Digi 003 -> Pro Tools LE

Richard

 

[rockguitarist1255]

I haven't messed with the USB output much.

The Axe II analog outs fit into my Pro Tools rigs easier / faster and sound fantastic. I use the balanced outputs -> Digi 003 -> Pro Tools LE

Richard

Do you keep the line in gain setting on your pro tools rig at zero then just control the volume with the axe fx output knob? Ive been messing around with the usb for the past few minutes and its a little confusing so i might do what you do with pro tools. For some reason also i can only get 1 wet track and no dry tracks for reamping. Im so confused.

 

[barhrecords]

Nope.

I use the first 4 003 inputs and adjust the gain there. Or I am running through an Avalon compressor between the Axe and 003 and I set the gain there.

My stock patch output is set ahead of time.

If you search the forum you will see tons of threads on how to set patch levels.

Also go to the wiki.

Richard

 

[Tone Seeker]

I don't have an AxeFX II yet, but when I record my Ultra I take the digital output and plug it directly into the digital input on the back of my 003. That's equivalent to recording via USB with the II. When I do that, the output knobs on the Ultra have no effect since I'm sending a digital stream. The patch level is what determines the amount of signal that ProTools sees. If you use an analogue output, that's when the output knobs on the AxeFX can be used to control the signal level sent to ProTools.

Terry.