Trouble with my high end on a live context !

Loutchos

Loutchos

Member
Hi,

Maybe you can help me with my live rig!

I love my tone with the Fm9 for recording but when it goes loud for live context, high notes are terrible in my stage monitor (yamaha dxr10 or 15)
More i attack strings more it’s agressive and i loose the tone..
Did it happens to somebody too? Do you have tips ?

I plug my jazzmaster into the Fm9 straight to P.A then i ear myself with yamaha dxr10 as a stage monitor

I already try eq the output, eq the cab at 5k etc..

Thanks !
 
Loutchos said:
Hi,

Maybe you can help me with my live rig!

I love my tone with the Fm9 for recording but when it goes loud for live context, high notes are terrible in my stage monitor (yamaha dxr10 or 15)
More i attack strings more it’s agressive and i loose the tone..
Did it happens to somebody too? Do you have tips ?

I plug my jazzmaster into the Fm9 straight to P.A then i ear myself with yamaha dxr10 as a stage monitor

I already try eq the output, eq the cab at 5k etc..

Thanks !
Click to expand...
Is the stage monitor also plugged into FM9 or is it fed from FOH?
 
The drx10 frequency response graph looks ok. Maybe keep the contour switch off.

If the tone is okay in the house, then I would turn on the EQ for output 2 (assuming you are driving the stage monitor with output 2) and boost mids and cut highs until it sounds good. Also, make sure you don't have too much distortion. Distortion adds high frequencies.
 
Also, a compressor BEFORE the amp can help you stay in the sweet spot of the amp and help control piercing high notes. So can EQ before the amp. If you don't have enough 300-600Hz going into the amp the high notes can thin out.
 
jakel said:
The drx10 frequency response graph looks ok. Maybe keep the contour switch off.

If the tone is okay in the house, then I would turn on the EQ for output 2 (assuming you are driving the stage monitor with output 2) and boost mids and cut highs until it sounds good. Also, make sure you don't have too much distortion. Distortion adds high frequencies.
Click to expand...
I use only the gain from the amp no drive. Thanks for this infos ! I’ll use the output 2 for my monitor. Thanks for the tips !
 
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jakel said:
Also, a compressor BEFORE the amp can help you stay in the sweet spot of the amp and help control piercing high notes. So can EQ before the amp. If you don't have enough 300-600Hz going into the amp the high notes can thin out.
Click to expand...
Yes ! I’ll try « pedal compressor1 » works fine for me, do you have another advice on compressor ?
 
Here's a passage from the owner's manual that I recently worked on updating.

WHAT TO KNOW:
Human hearing is variable. This due to a phenomenon called the Fletcher-Munson effect, as represented by equal-loudness contour curves. In short, when the volume changes, the tone seems to change too. At lower volumes, low and high frequencies seem relatively quieter. As volume increases, bass and treble frequencies become more prominent.		WHAT TO DO:
Adjust your tone and levels at “gig levels” (loud!). Be on the lookout for tones that are too boomy or too bright when you turn them up, and adjust accordingly. Conversely, recognize that changes in tone can be perceived as changes in volume: “Mids” can help guitars stand out a mix.
 
I use the same setup as you with the DXR10, and I used to always feel that the high end was harsh at stage volume...because it was. It doesn't have anything to do with the Yamaha monitor; I had a CLR for a while and experienced the same problem. It took me many hours of trial and error to figure out a fix.

Try something for me: Dial up a good, loud sound on a tube amp by your knees. Sounds great, right?

Now aim the cab right at your face like a monitor. Ouch. It probably sounds every bit as harsh as your Fractal/FRFR.

While your close-mic'd IR should, theoretically, reproduce a cabinet and microphone's frequency response (albeit with proximity effects), it does not replicate the enormous amount of treble roll-off that you achieve by aiming your cabinet away from your ears. So, you'll need to compensate for this as well as the Fletcher-Munson curve (i.e., dial in your presets at stage volume or be prepared to adjust on the fly).

Forget everything you've read about appropriate 5-10kHz cab-block frequency cuts. Instead, try bringing it down to 2-3.5k with a 6 db/octave slope to preserve some top end. If you're doing this at home volumes, it probably sounds like your amp is under water. That will change when you bring up your volume in a band setting. Trust me.

This is what a 2.5kHz treble cut threshold sounds like live with the Vibroverb AA amp model. Please, refer to the tone rather than the playing--I botched the solo, but the tone is good. https://photos.app.goo.gl/fMKvm5y5mLmkegmo6
 
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Dont tweak your patches at home level
The best way to go is reset the settings of amp and fx eq and tweak at stage level. Dial in your amp until it sounds good to you, maybe low cut in the preamp section at 100-200 Hz for a better band mix. Then add fx and eq to taste. To keep up in a bandmix better cut on low and highs rather than add another 6dB
 
Loutchos said:
Yes ! I’ll try « pedal compressor1 » works fine for me, do you have another advice on compressor ?
Click to expand...
I'm personally a fan of the optical compressor with the LED light type. I run one before the amp and one after. I use Emphasis, set around 5, in the Sidechain for the compressor after the amp.

I use a hollow body guitar, so I don't need a ton of compression before the amp. Too much will remove the touch sensitivity. In fact, I typically roll the compressor Mix back to around 50% to keep it from getting too sterile. A lot depends on the amp you're using and the amount of compression it is adding, and how it breaks up.
 
Adjusting your patches at gig volume is key, but the other thing I've run into a TON is that sound guys almost always hype the heck out of the high mids on stage monitor bus to help vocals stand out, since that is their main function traditionally.
I've played many festivals where I ask the sound guy to make sure my tone is flat EQ, and it sounds like crushed glass. They think you are referring to your guitar channel, but it's the monitor bus that is the culprit. Doesn't matter if the guitar channel is flat when your eating a fire-hose of 1k-2.5k because of the monitor EQ.

If you can bring your own monitor onto stage that takes a direct out from the Fractal unit, you're good. Otherwise, you have to advocate for them to flatten the monitor bus EQ which they may do, it depends on the needs of everyone else who's monitoring themselves via the same bus.

It's a bit of a mess if you're in a large group - I'm lucky in that I play in a trio and it's my name on the gig, so I can usually get what I want, but it can take some negotiating and explanation.

Even big gigs where you'd expect it wouldnt be an issue it often is I played a major theater with around 3,000 capacity as the opener and the monitor EQ was so hyped I ended up hooking up my own wedge on stage as a direct out! Thank God I had it with me or I'd have had to listen to a torrent of icepicks all night.
 
skip said:
what did you fine that worked the best for you?im having same teoubles?
Click to expand...
Hey ! Collecting all tips from discussion (almost)


Output 1 front house
Output 2 direct in the monitor from fm9 (monitor eq should be flat)
I Eq them -3 db for low and -12db for 8k and 16k

Then the cab Eq is low cut at 80 at 18db and high 2,5k at 6db

Mic distancing at 140 mm
Proximity 1.20

A compressor before the amp

As a amp i found the AC20 treble very cool !

I’ll share my preset in coples days when i’m back home 👍 tried it yesterdays and it felt great !! Finally

Thank you’ll for the help 🙏
 
Loutchos said:
Hey ! Collecting all tips from discussion (almost)


Output 1 front house
Output 2 direct in the monitor from fm9 (monitor eq should be flat)
I Eq them -3 db for low and -12db for 8k and 16k

Then the cab Eq is low cut at 80 at 18db and high 2,5k at 6db

Mic distancing at 140 mm
Proximity 1.20

A compressor before the amp

As a amp i found the AC20 treble very cool !

I’ll share my preset in coples days when i’m back home 👍 tried it yesterdays and it felt great !! Finally

Thank you’ll for the help 🙏
Click to expand...
what do you mean by -3db for low end how do you adjust that?and the mic distancing?i see where in the cab room and air it has mic spacing its in %?
 
Having worked FoH for many years (recently stopped to focus on other things), it saddens me to say that most FoH guys could care less about your monitor feed. Best to feed your DXR's straight from the Fractal or otherwise under your control. In fact, we bring our own mixer for our IEM and or monitor feeds these days. Wish we could just do it all, but most venues frown on that.
 
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