Tone Shaping - Sharp PEQ Cuts

[hensh!n_vfs]

I used to, but I try to be careful as it could be your monitors (i.e., headphones, studio monitors) or environment. It could also be your pickups. In general, I try to be careful of making too many cuts. I look to establish 70-80% of what I want with an amp and IR. From there I will make selective EQ adjustments to taste and try not to go too crazy with any drastic adjustments. Drastic adjustments tell me I'm using the wrong amp or IR. I try to always have a reference point too, as it can lead to creating a mess that wasn't even there to begin with.

Sometimes those offending frequencies are what help you cut in a mix. "Offensive" is also relative, to the mix or context you're working in. This is the difficulty of creating something in isolation then trying to adapt it to your preferred use case. I remember Petrucci saying something like "if you cut all of undesirable parts of a guitar tone out, you'll be left with nothing". Of course I'm paraphrasing, but it is important to distinguish between offensive or nasty frequencies that help you stand out in a mix, and the offensive or nasty frequencies (i.e., resonances like "whistles") that your tone and mix would do better without.

 

[JRod4928]

I use the input eq in the amp block to get rid of some low mud and to tame some 3K frequencies of my guitar

That's a good suggestion that I want to test. That's kind of what @2112 was doing in the 1st half of the video, except with Multi-Band Compressor to adjust certain frequency ranges prior to the amp block. I think for my situation I want to use PEQ

I used to, but I try to be careful as it could be your monitors (i.e., headphones, studio monitors) or environment. It could also be your pickups. In general, I try to be careful of making too many cuts. I look to establish 70-80% of what I want with an amp and IR. From there I will make selective EQ adjustments to taste and try not to go too crazy with any drastic adjustments. Drastic adjustments tell me I'm using the wrong amp or IR. I try to always have a reference point too, as it can lead to creating a mess that wasn't even there to begin with.

Sometimes those offending frequencies are what help you cut in a mix. "Offensive" is also relative, to the mix or context you're working in. This is the difficulty of creating something in isolation then trying to adapt it to your preferred use case. I remember Petrucci saying something like "if you cut all of undesirable parts of a guitar tone out, you'll be left with nothing". Of course I'm paraphrasing, but it is important to distinguish between offensive or nasty frequencies that help you stand out in a mix, and the offensive or nasty frequencies (i.e., resonances like "whistles") that your tone and mix would do better without.

I have another thread on TGP about taming highs on my PRS. Usually I'm using my cabs and not headphones, but it's easier to hear fine details like this with headphones. I've noticed w/ cabs too. So I think this might be a pickup thing.

You're right about offending frequencies cutting in a mix. However my previous solution was to dial back Treble/Presence (prior to realizing this is a small band of frequency issue).... or select different amps altogether. In recent rehearsals I've noticed my tone sounds darker in the band-mix, and I think it's because instead of making a surgical cut with PEQ, I've been making broad brush changes by dialing back Treble/Presence and it's making my overall tone darker than I wanted, but still with this annoying spike (though reducing treble/presence made it less annoying).

 

[JRod4928]

I use the input eq in the amp block to get rid of some low mud and to tame some 3K frequencies of my guitar

What pickups/guitar is it?

 

[Shepdoggiest]

When you are tone shaping, do you ever introduce sharp PEQ cuts for certain offending frequencies?

I never took the time to do this, but on a few higher gain presets (Soldano Hot Rod, Friedman HBE, Soldano SLO) I recognized w/ headphones a sharp spike at about 3300 Hz. Didn't matter which IR I tried. Once I isolated it, I put a PEQ block immediately after the amp w/ a Notch at that frequency with high Q to cut it out. It made a very noticable difference and instantly made the tone sound more open and less stuffy/nasal.

Does anyone else scrutinize this closely?
Since this happens with multiple high gain amp models, I'm wondering if this spike is a pickup characteristic for my PRS.

I don't like doing stuff like this because of the collateral 'damage' to the nearby frequencies that I don't want to cut - but it did help.

If I find an offending freq across multiple presets or no matter what IR, I find PEQ to get it out of the guitar before the amp much more efficient. You can use it to shape your pickup tone as well. .02

 

[York Audio]

When you are tone shaping, do you ever introduce sharp PEQ cuts for certain offending frequencies?

I never took the time to do this, but on a few higher gain presets (Soldano Hot Rod, Friedman HBE, Soldano SLO) I recognized w/ headphones a sharp spike at about 3300 Hz. Didn't matter which IR I tried. Once I isolated it, I put a PEQ block immediately after the amp w/ a Notch at that frequency with high Q to cut it out. It made a very noticable difference and instantly made the tone sound more open and less stuffy/nasal.

Does anyone else scrutinize this closely?
Since this happens with multiple high gain amp models, I'm wondering if this spike is a pickup characteristic for my PRS.

I don't like doing stuff like this because of the collateral 'damage' to the nearby frequencies that I don't want to cut - but it did help.

I'd guess the main culprit would be your headphones imparting that spike at 3.3k If you're hearing it with every IR and different amp models.

If cutting that frequency makes your headphone experience better, go for it with a simple PEQ block at the end of your chain. Just make sure to bypass it if you listen through studio monitors or have to play a gig.

We dial things in based on the information our listening source gives us. If your listening source isn't neutral, you're probably going to make some pretty aggressive tonal decisions that won't translate well across different platforms.

Try not to overcomplicate things or else you'll chase your tail creating more problems with each "solution" you try. It's best to start from scratch with the amp and IR you want to use, cut a little 3.3k, dial in your amp, and enjoy it.

 

[Steven Persson]

When you are tone shaping, do you ever introduce sharp PEQ cuts for certain offending frequencies?

I never took the time to do this, but on a few higher gain presets (Soldano Hot Rod, Friedman HBE, Soldano SLO) I recognized w/ headphones a sharp spike at about 3300 Hz. Didn't matter which IR I tried. Once I isolated it, I put a PEQ block immediately after the amp w/ a Notch at that frequency with high Q to cut it out. It made a very noticable difference and instantly made the tone sound more open and less stuffy/nasal.

Does anyone else scrutinize this closely?
Since this happens with multiple high gain amp models, I'm wondering if this spike is a pickup characteristic for my PRS.

I don't like doing stuff like this because of the collateral 'damage' to the nearby frequencies that I don't want to cut - but it did help.

Always! As soon as distortion are introduced. Usually around 3.1-3.3k area. Then I often find a kind of “cloudy” frequency around 10k that I notch out quite a bit. These two notches really clear up the sound.

 

[JRod4928]

I'd guess the main culprit would be your headphones imparting that spike at 3.3k If you're hearing it with every IR and different amp models.

If cutting that frequency makes your headphone experience better, go for it with a simple PEQ block at the end of your chain. Just make sure to bypass it if you listen through studio monitors or have to play a gig.

We dial things in based on the information our listening source gives us. If your listening source isn't neutral, you're probably going to make some pretty aggressive tonal decisions that won't translate well across different platforms.

Try not to overcomplicate things or else you'll chase your tail creating more problems with each "solution" you try. It's best to start from scratch with the amp and IR you want to use, cut a little 3.3k, dial in your amp, and enjoy it.

Yesterday I played with this more and I do still hear it with my amp/cab setup. So maybe not just headphones. Also I tried PEQ cut before amp and didn't find the offending frequency. Or at least I ran out of time and only tried the same frequency that I used post amp.

 

[Steven Persson]

Yesterday I played with this more and I do still hear it with my amp/cab setup. So maybe not just headphones. Also I tried PEQ cut before amp and didn't find the offending frequency. Or at least I ran out of time and only tried the same frequency that I used post amp.

Usually this is done as the very last step in the chain after the cab because by then you hear everything that contributes to the final sound and pushing that annoying frequency.

 

[Bman]

Would the RTA block help identify the spiked frequencies?

 

[JRod4928]

Would the RTA block help identify the spiked frequencies?

It would but I have FM9. I put the thread here for traffic lol

 

[Cainer]

In my overdriven Fender patches I often have a PEQ block with a narrow cut of somewhere around 2-2.5 kHz as that is the ice-pick widow-maker frequency for me. I haven't tried the multiband compressor on it -that might be an idea to mess with. When mixing I often use a dynamic EQ in that area, which I guess has a similar effect.

 

[Joshua_L]

What pickups/guitar is it?

Mahogany telecaster with paf36 in the bridge and virtual T (di marzio noiseless telecaster) neck.

The 3k eq is mainly for the neck pickup. That can be unpleasant at stage volumes.

In the amp block - input eq
Type ; peaking
Frequency : around 3.3k
Q: 1.4
Gain : - 1.5

Low cut 75

It’s just a subtle touch, to get rid of the unwanted frequencies without getting the tones on the bridge pickup to sound dull.

Here’s a quick recording first without the 3k eq and then after. You’ll see it subtle but just enough to not lose too much character.

 

[Jason Scott]

Certainly. In fact, I use a spectrum analyzer in Reaper along with one or more PEQ's in the Axe to pinpoint and remove fizz with a narrow Q, as fizz typically presents as a spike in the high-mids to high-end.

 

[rcm78]

Another cause of that frequency range being hyped is a Humbucker with asymmetrical winds. Some are pretty obvious and have a cocked Wah sound going on.

 

[Brewce]

Another cause of that frequency range being hyped is a Humbucker with asymmetrical winds. Some are pretty obvious and have a cocked Wah sound going on.

Reminds me of the first guitar I modded to have 4 pickups. I suspect you can't put some next to each other. IIRC, this event too produced a kind of wah effect.

 

[VESmedic]

I do. Black winters have, to my ears, in my signal chain, an annoying freq at 133hz that I notch out. I figure, if we can, why not notch these out? I’m all for it!

Super strange, 133hz is almost always a huge resonant problem for me on guitars, always. Very strange.

 

[VESmedic]

3.3- 3.4K is a pretty common area to do small cuts on high gain guitars, im not surprised you found it annoying. 2.3k is another often too. But, it’s also very easy to get carried away and neuter the hell out of your guitar if you aren’t careful. It’s often best to walk away for a few and let your ears adjust and see if it’s really as annoying as you think, or if you are just hyper focused on it.

If you do some deep cuts in this area, it’s often a good trick to then boost around 3k with a very wide Q( 1 or wider) to bring back some of the attack and brightness that you lost. The Korneff amplified instrument processor does exactly this in the plugin in the “insufferable midrange” tab of the plugin basically.

 

[aziz]

On a side note, people have different ”spikes” in their hearing, resulting from their ear canal size. Ear gain happens somewhere in 3-5khz area.

 

[jephjacques]

I don't bother EQing anything other than a high pass in the axefx because I'd rather do all that in my DAW in the context of the mix. Very different if you play live, of course.

 

[VESmedic]

I don't bother EQing anything other than a high pass in the axefx because I'd rather do all that in my DAW in the context of the mix. Very different if you play live, of course.

Same, but I figured l he was referring to live use, I don’t like using “extra” eq’s in the axe when we have access to the eq’s we have in the DAW personally.