Tone Frustration

[shawnt3]

For me, I had to learn what the tones I liked sound like on different playback systems.

What I do is A/B a track from a record I love with what I am working on. This gets you apples to apples listening on the same speakers in the same room.

The low end is the hardest in that most speakers and most rooms in general don't reproduce the lower octaves accurately.

For the low end, I recommend lots of trial and error to learn what works for your room and speakers where you create your presets.

I don't really expect to get the same tone that I get with my 6505+ and Mesa 4x12 (which is absolutely crushing) on these KRKs, just want something at LEAST comparable.

I don't know if any of you have seen it on the tone sharing part of the Fractal website, but I downloaded the FAS Modern tone which wires two heads through two cabs. This sounds absolutely crushing on the Mesa, but on my speakers, or headphones, or any other output OTHER than the Mesa, I get this crackling sound with it (possibly because these outputs are trying to handle too much frequency or something). Unfortunately, this is still my best tone and I have been playing with it despite the crackling, so I am trying to figure something else out.

But yeah, these KRKs are pretty solid quality, and I know I can get a solid tone out of them with some tweaking. I will definitely be trying the drive block and upping the presence on the guitar.

 

[JDWhite]

Shawn, these guys did the same for me. I had no idea that a guitar didn't just carry it's own weight, and sound thick and amazing, on its own. The truth is (as already stated) guitar is "mids" and the kick and bass are the components, in the mix, that help everything sound so cool, as a whole (even/especially, guitars). I forget who it was on here, many months ago, when I had this same problem, posted the guitars (only/soloed) from lamb of god. They sounded weak and disgusting. Then he said "listen to the second link in the full mix"; absolute crushing tone. Cuz it was all mixed accordingly.

The crazy truth is (and I am right where you are). A guitar does not sound good alone, soloed from a mix. The bass and drums have to have frequency cuts to play well together. Then the bass/drum sound has to be properly mixed with the guitar (that WILL) sound somewhat weak on its own, but needs to because some of the aspects of a heavy guitar, have a tendency to leak down into "bass" area where they may not belong. Then there's vocals, solos....etc.

If I sound to you like I know what I am talking about, I don't. I have only attempted to regurgitate what the masters in this forum have shared. I think I have a great grasp on this concept, but application is difficult, yet fun.

Hang in there and make your main task to learn the frequency spectrum, as applied to instruments. It will change your world.

As always, thanks fractal brothers for sharing your knowledge with us.

JD

 

[barhrecords]

I don't really expect to get the same tone that I get with my 6505+ and Mesa 4x12 (which is absolutely crushing) on these KRKs, just want something at LEAST comparable.

What I am saying is train your ears / brain to recognize what a crushing good tone sounds like from your KRK's.

If you playback a track from your favorite band with tones you love through the KRK's, then train your ears to dial in your presets to sound similar. You will be on your way to learning it.

If your favorite record sounds killer on the KRK's then you start to figure out what to do get your own thing as good.

But if your favorite record sounds like shite on the KRK's then you probably need to think about your room or speaker placement etc.

 

[toolfanem]

What I am saying is train your ears / brain to recognize what a crushing good tone sounds like from your KRK's.

If you playback a track from your favorite band with tones you love through the KRK's, then train your ears to dial in your presets to sound similar. You will be on your way to learning it.

If your favorite record sounds killer on the KRK's then you start to figure out what to do get your own thing as good.

But if your favorite record sounds like shite on the KRK's then you probably need to think about your room or speaker placement etc.

This.

Comparing your 8" KRKs to a Mesa 4x12 is comparing apples to oranges. The mesa cabs sound GIGANTIC, but thats what 4 12inch speakers blasting at ya will do. Trying to get the same thing out of the KRKs will probably blow them long before you get close. If you had a PA system with a sub and the right patch you could get that sound, if not a better one for that matter. But thats not the point, barhrecords has the right idea for sure. Learning how to tell what will sound big in a mix takes practice and ear training. Most guitar tones sound somewhat thin on their own so that the bass guitar and kick have room. Best advice is listen back and forth to your own tones against some guitar stems of bands that you like, if you can find them. Try even doing a spectrum capture with something like ozone and look at the frequency spectrum and then compare it to your tones spectrum. One of the things I do when I am writing my own guitar stuff is track demo rhythm guitars with more low end than is needed so that it feels a little more full while I am laying down ideas. Then I just use a low shelf to eq them when they are done and I want to track bass guitar.

 

[wtfover]

Have you recorded your live rig, mic'd 412 cab and all, then compared it to the axe fx 2?
If you have, please post this test.
Also, remember your studio monitors are not to be thought as your amp/speaker cab. The studio monitors are full bandwidth and are for creating your entire sound stage...all instruments and vocals.
FAS has already done the work for you. They modeled the amp/cab/mic already so it's all set for your studio monitors. Of course, make sure cab and amp sim is on.

The only true comparison here is to mic your rig, then compare to the axe fx2 with the same amp/cab combo.. period

 

[smcrosby]

Have you recorded your live rig, mic'd 412 cab and all, then compared it to the axe fx 2?
If you have, please post this test.
Also, remember your studio monitors are not to be thought as your amp/speaker cab. The studio monitors are full bandwidth and are for creating your entire sound stage...all instruments and vocals.
FAS has already done the work for you. They modeled the amp/cab/mic already so it's all set for your studio monitors. Of course, make sure cab and amp sim is on.

The only true comparison here is to mic your rig, then compare to the axe fx2 with the same amp/cab combo.. period

Just a little confused here - do his 5" KRK's really fall in the category of "full bandwidth" speakers for dialing in Axe presets.

I don't think so but I'd sure love to be wrong about this (I have 8" KRKs).

 

[Rex]

Just a little confused here - do his 5" KRK's really fall in the category of "full bandwidth" speakers for dialing in Axe presets.

I don't think so but I'd sure love to be wrong about this (I have 8" KRKs).

Yes. Some people feel they don't have enough low end, but the real issue there is that they don't have a lot of power. When a system runs out of steam, it shows up in the low end first. If you run the KRK 5's below the point where limiting kicks in, they have plenty of range. Electric guitar doesn't have much energy below 100 Hz, and the KRK's response extends well below that.

 

[chris]

Just a little confused here - do his 5" KRK's really fall in the category of "full bandwidth" speakers for dialing in Axe presets.

I don't think so but I'd sure love to be wrong about this (I have 8" KRKs).

Guitar cabs and speakers are generally what people mean when they say non-FRFR. Any studio monitor or PA speaker is generally referred to as FRFR (generically speaking) because it covers the normal range of audio. Yes, some are specifically full range flat response, but most are at least full range, compared to a guitar speaker.