Tips for dealing with the audio drop out

Smittefar

Axe-Master
We all know, it is there, if you x/y-switch the amp block. I do not think, it will ever be removed with this version of the hardware, but if you are careful, how you set up your presets, it becomes much easier to live with.

So here are the tips I have found helps. If you have more tips and good ideas, please chime in :)

First a few basics

All X/Y switching (not only amp block) result in an audio dropout or audio artefact

If there is no x/y switching, there is no audio dropout.

So the aim should always be to do as little x/y switching as possible. Here are a few ways to achieve that.

Use more blocks
We are limited on CPU, and we do not have two of every block, but rather than x/y-switching a filter block, use two filter blocks. The same goes for all other blocks. X/Y switching a delay block while playing does not result in an audio drop out, but it does introduce a crackle and a time shift of the delays. Use two delay blocks instead, if you have the power.

Look at what disabled blocks are doing
If you have several disabled blocks, try to avoid that they x/y-switch while they are disabled when you change scenes. The x/y switch requires that parameters are loaded into the block, and that takes processing and memory. This might delay the amp block x/y switch, such that the audio drop out takes longer.

Also, if you have the good habit of do a 'copy x to y state', if you are not using the y-state. Make sure that the block is not switching x and y, when you change scenes, as this will also delay the amp x/y, even though the settings are the same in both states.

Use scene controllers
If you are in a specific situation where absolutely no audio dropout can be tolerated, you must avoid x/y switching completely. In that case scene controllers are your friend. You can attach scene controllers to input trim, input gain, master vol in the amp block, and while you cannot attach a scene controller to the level parameter in the amp block (that seems like a bug/oversight), you can attach a scene controller to the level parameter in the cab block. If you choose an amp (such as the Dirty shirley) that covers the full range from clean to drive, you can go from fully clean to full drive with a scene change and scene controllers. I have attached a sample preset showing this.

Another use of scene controllers would be to reduce reverb and delay levels. Instead of having a big reverb for leads and a small verb for the rhythm, you can just attach a scene controller to the reverb level or mix parameter. That removes the necessity for an x/y switch, and you keep the image of being in the same room all the time.

Use a drive block
The ruckus drive seems to be a popular choice as an 'amp in a box' drive - Enable to achieve full drive with no x/y switching.

Use pre-EQ and boost in front of the amp
Boost the front end of the amp (block) with a boost and some pre-EQ to push the amp into fuller gain - it may be necessary to use a filter/EQ/vol block after the amp to reduce the added level (a scene controller could be used as well)

Think about the bypass state of each block
Especially on time effects such as reverb and delays, mute FX in is much preferable over thru, as it will allow the reverb and delay tails to ring after the block has been turned off.

Masking the audio drop out
A little reverb and delay that are allowed to ring (unswitched or with mute FX in) goes a long way to mask the audio drop out. I find that parallel paths for reverb and delay work better in this regard than inline reverb and delay, but I have not tested it thoroughly.

Reduce CPU usage
I know that some of the advice, I have given here actually increases CPU usage. Both scene controllers and extra blocks add CPU. But heavily overloading the CPU will make the amp x/y switch take longer. So remove all unused blocks, and see if you can live without some blocks. @Chris@AxeFxTutorials already showed that the amp x/y change is faster with low CPU usage.

I think this wraps up my ideas. I think you can make quite advanced presets while avoiding or at least reducing audio drop outs and artefacts while scene changing, but you have to think about avoiding x/y switching and only x/y switch the absolutely necessary things.

What do you think? What ideas do you have? Let us put it all together.
 

Attachments

  • SceneController.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 84
The only other thing I can think of is make the blocks count. I had a hint of reverb in a couple of presets, mainly because it's nicer playing at home, not at volume. So I removed the reverb so that could add another delay, and avoid the scratching when switching X/Y on delays.

Really hope the AX8 firmware isn't optimised yet and that we'll see improvements in the switching over the few releases.
 
I'm having to work on my timing to go from my dirty to cleans and vice versa. It's been a challenge. I think I can live with it but if not I'll just use my Axe for gigging and keep the AX8 just at rehearsal.
 
I can switch X/Y on many blocks (other than amp) without any gaps or artifacts. It's all about the two settings and how close they are. For example, try the rotary. Use the same settings on both X and Y, but make the rate much faster on Y. Not only will there be no gap, you'll actually hear it ramp up like the real thing.
 
One thing, I forgot to add.

Consider going direct for cleans. Use a drive block if you need a touch of hair on your cleans. Could be the tape drive or the tube driver three knob.

It is true that the rotary seems to do X/Y quite well. As long as you do not change algorithms, it is not too bad.
 
I just want to say "Thank you" in advance as I get into setting-up the preset switching on the presets I've been making this past week.

The information & tips here are just priceless to me & what I love about the Fractal community! :cool:

From Detroit to Denmark......Peace! X-Mann \m/
 
@ Smittefar, awesome post!

means the x/y switching dropout is happening after surpassing what cpu load?

It is a pity that one of the best features that set the AX8 apart from the competition has such limitations. Let's hope Cliff can address this with a firmware update. X/y switching is my best friend ( or so)...
 
I do not know any of these things, all of the above are ramblings based on my experience.

I have found that not all of it is true all the time. I am working on a preset right now that has the Dirty Shirley on both amp x and amp y (different settings) - Even with CPU load above 80%, I can hardly generate any noticeable audio dropout. I will make a demo and upload the patch tonight.
 
Can someone post a mp3, i.e. switching from a clean amp to a hi gain amp, with the least of CPU usage, please? I'm very curious about this signal drop. There's a lot of hassle about this issue so it could be a dealbreaker for me.
 
I will do this tonight - Although what I consider hi-gain may be edge of break-up to you, if you are into Super Hi-Gain stuff
 
Doesn't matter. Some pairs of amps will switch faster, some slower, regardless of gain territory, and even - regardless of how close they are technically relaleted.
 
Doesn't matter if the two amps are totally different or not, hi gain or not. Just an example of the fastest (patch)change between two amps will do fine.
 
So I tested a bit tonight - It turns out that the dropout is approximately 0.1 seconds

XYaudiodropout.jpg


Then I wanted to show the awesomeness of scene controllers - only to discover that they made a big pop, when switching from drive to clean
SCaudiodropout.jpg


Here is the mp3 (do not listen loud, the 'pop' is loud - first clip is amp X/Y switching (using scenes disengaging chorus and compressor while engaging the drive block), second clip is amp Y with scene controllers (disengaging/engaging same blocks as before)

The two presets are attached (compared to the recording, I had to swab the IR to a factory IR, so it does not sound exactly the same)
 

Attachments

  • Dirty Shirley Does SC.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 19
  • Dirty Shirley Does XY.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 11
Whoops!! That is really serious sh*t, in both clips.
In both cases, the algorhythm is much straight forward, nothing special, just a few blocks?

The gap seems even bigger because of the volume increase.
 
Use scene controllers
If you are in a specific situation where absolutely no audio dropout can be tolerated, you must avoid x/y switching completely. In that case scene controllers are your friend. You can attach scene controllers to input trim, input gain, master vol in the amp block, and while you cannot attach a scene controller to the level parameter in the amp block (that seems like a bug/oversight), you can attach a scene controller to the level parameter in the cab block. If you choose an amp (such as the Dirty shirley) that covers the full range from clean to drive, you can go from fully clean to full drive with a scene change and scene controllers. I have attached a sample preset showing this.

Is there a wiki post or thread that explains how to do this. I've been searching and can't find it. Trying to do exactly this....go to scene 2 and have Master Vol and Input Gain jump up a bit.
I'm a dummy when it comes to using controllers.
 
Is there a wiki post or thread that explains how to do this. I've been searching and can't find it. Trying to do exactly this....go to scene 2 and have Master Vol and Input Gain jump up a bit.
I'm a dummy when it comes to using controllers.

@BBN, enter the modifier menus of Master and Input Drive and assign Scene Controller 1 as source. For now, keep everything else at default in the modifier menus.

Now go to the Control menu (the menu with Envelope, ADSR etc.) and scroll to the Scene Controllers tab. The menu provides scene values for Scene Controller 1 and 2.

Set Scene Controller 1's value for scene 1 to your regular value for Master and Input Drive.
Set Scene Controller 1's value for scene 2 to the bumped value for Master and Input Drive.
 
@BBN, enter the modifier menus of Master and Input Drive and assign Scene Controller 1 as source. For now, keep everything else at default in the modifier menus.

Now go to the Control menu (the menu with Envelope, ADSR etc.) and scroll to the Scene Controllers tab. The menu provides scene values for Scene Controller 1 and 2.

Set Scene Controller 1's value for scene 1 to your regular value for Master and Input Drive.
Set Scene Controller 1's value for scene 2 to the bumped value for Master and Input Drive.


Thanks Yek!
 
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