Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong.

[theliving]

Setup was easy enough, but I can't seem to get sounds that make me happy. Can't dial out the fizz in any distorted patch even using the advanced amp features. Going in from the front Instrument input, and out the lefl output to my DAW (Dynaudio bm5a's)

Maybe someone can point in me in the right direction. I've recorded a dry file and reamped to the AXE using the "early carlos" preset (didn't like thep presets, but this was a pretty straight forward boogie thing) and another patch mixing a Marshall and Supertweed. Both of these examples pale in comparison to the same dry file process through my lowly UAD Nigel (hybrid marshal/supertweed) in terms of note separation and clarity.

I'ts random sloppy playing but I think you get the idea (Telecaster).

Any suggestion?

 

[Scott Peterson]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Can you post a preset for us to break down?

Can you look at your output settings and post them? Where is your input/output pots at? Do you have cabs on globally? Do you have power amp on globally?

 

[joegold]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Any suggestion?

Forget about doing things like re-amping until you're more familiar with the Axe?

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Going in from the front Instrument input, and out the lefl output to my DAW (Dynaudio bm5a's)

Take care of the basics first. If you're reamping, you should use (and make sure to select) the rear input. Also, make sure you're not clipping the input of your DAW with the Axe-Fx's output. That's really easy to do.

 

[theliving]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Can you post a preset for us to break down?

Can you look at your output settings and post them? Where is your input/output pots at? Do you have cabs on globally? Do you have power amp on globally?

Here is a Marshall preset - the best I can do to dial out fizz, still fizzier than my Nigel (but less fizzy than my J-station and Gr4 The clip I posted had the "Early carlos" preset that came with the Ultra. It sounded pretty bad.

Not sure what do you mean by ouptut settings. I usually don't touch the ouptut, I usually leave it as is (see jpg).

Oddly, my input is all the way up and I still can't get the input to hit red using my tele (2010 custom shop it's supposed to have hotter pickups). My other guitars I also have to dime it and maybe i'll see a red once in a while. My output is usually around 12:00 (I look at my sound card to see where to set it). If I hit the clip on the on outs on the Axe, I back off the "level" on the amp block.

As far as the reamping goes, I've tried both the outputs and input (using a cunibertti reamp) and haven't really seen much of a difference but for the most part I'm playing through thei nputs.

Thanks!
thanks guys!

 

[yek]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Check your Global settings and stuff in the I/O menu.

 

[theliving]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Okay. Kids got up super early but still managed to sneak a peak at the Global and I/O menu.

GLOBAL
Config settings
Power amp is on, Cabinet is Active, Default Tonestack is Passive (I never liked passive controls on my amps, wonder if this will matter),

Out1 and Out2 - The Eq's are flat.

I/O
My inputs are set to left only and the output to stereo. Phase is normal and I'm pretty sure my input has been set appropriately (analog rear, front...)

Will play around with the tonestack active later today. Anything else I should look at?

 

[marshall2553]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

I'd also suggest trying to get the basics down before reamping, it will be easier to isolate the problem.

Also, make sure you're not clipping the input of your DAW with the Axe-Fx's output. That's really easy to do.

This gave me a lot of grief, try lowering the output level on the AxeFX and see if that helps.

 

[shasha]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

That sounds like granulation noise to me. What bit depth are you recording to and what are your levels?

If the levels are too low going into any of the A>D converters in the signal path (Axe-FX or sound card) you can get that kind of quantization error. It almost sounds like something is running at 8-bit somewhere, but you said the levels were acting funky to begin with so I'd look there first.

What is the Axe-FX feeding? What are the input gain levels set at? If they're hot and you're compensating somewhere else it could be screwing with it.

 

[theliving]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

It's not the sound card, It's the same when I plug straight in to the speakers. How hard is it to watch levels anyway? When the output clips, there's a red light and in the DAW there's metering?

Is it odd that I rarely hit the red on the input no matter what guitar I'm using?
Also my Ultra crashed this morning (I'm assuming that it happens every once in a while).

I'm thinking now that it might be my ears. I've developed a fizz aversion. I've got a couple of Bad Cat amps which are great clean but I can't stand the distortion b/c it sounds undefined and fizzy. Most love it. Maybe it's just me.

 

[shasha]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

No, it's not your ears those clips sound bad to me.

I do a class on digital audio and we spend some time talking about digital audio issues and granulation noise is something that we discuss for a while. I've done some examples of it and it sounds a lot like that. What happens is that there isn't enough dynamic range to trigger the LSB to change values so instead of a subtle waveform you get a clipping type of problem, but it's not at the peaks like you get with overdriving a signal beyond 0dBFS. It's tough to do in 24-bit though. In 8-bit it's glaringly obvious, especially in quiet passages.

So between the way that it sounds to me and the fact that you are having level issues where it's too low would make me look there some more. You shouldn't have to crank the input gain more than 3/4 to get that kind of deflection.

I could be wrong on this; it's really hard to troubleshoot over the internet, but you definitely have something going on with those clips.

There is one other thing. Most meters have to be calibrated; they could be off. Don't use the meters, set the input gain to around 2:00 and try recording it like that with the levels adjusted at the output to get good deflection on the sound card input.

OK, I got one more thing that it sort of sounds like. Is there a way to switch between mic and line level on your soundcard? After listening to it at home on a good set of monitors it sounds similar to an impedance and level mismatch. I've had the same issue with old VTR's being set to mic level input and even dialing the level down caused it to sound bad.

 

[yek]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

. I've got a couple of Bad Cat amps which are great clean but I can't stand the distortion b/c it sounds undefined and fizzy. Most love it. Maybe it's just me.

We have the same ears
Had exactly the same experience with a Hot Cat.

 

[theliving]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

No, it's not your ears those clips sound bad to me...

So between the way that it sounds to me and the fact that you are having level issues where it's too low would make me look there some more. You shouldn't have to crank the input gain more than 3/4 to get that kind of deflection.

I could be wrong on this; it's really hard to troubleshoot over the internet, but you definitely have something going on with those clips.

There is one other thing. Most meters have to be calibrated; they could be off. Don't use the meters, set the input gain to around 2:00 and try recording it like that with the levels adjusted at the output to get good deflection on the sound card input.

OK, I got one more thing that it sort of sounds like. Is there a way to switch between mic and line level on your soundcard? After listening to it at home on a good set of monitors it sounds similar to an impedance and level mismatch. I've had the same issue with old VTR's being set to mic level input and even dialing the level down caused it to sound bad.

Thanks for your help. I'm glad the clips sound bad to you too! I'm here at work listening to clips on youtube and every one sounds monstrous. I'll re-record a clip at 2:00 but I'm not sure what you mean by setting the ouptut to sound card "to get good deflection". I go straight out of the XLR output into my Lynx Two card set to +4dbu and accepts line level only.

What is the most suspicious thing to me is that I need to turn the Input all the way before I have any shot of seeing a clip on the input.

 

[theliving]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

. I've got a couple of Bad Cat amps which are great clean but I can't stand the distortion b/c it sounds undefined and fizzy. Most love it. Maybe it's just me.

We have the same ears
Had exactly the same experience with a Hot Cat.

Are you sure? I make good price on you.

The oddest thing is that the Hotcat has the best clean tone I've ever heard, How that translates into such an overdrive baffles me.

 

[yek]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

. I've got a couple of Bad Cat amps which are great clean but I can't stand the distortion b/c it sounds undefined and fizzy. Most love it. Maybe it's just me.

We have the same ears
Had exactly the same experience with a Hot Cat.

Are you sure? I make good price on you.

The oddest thing is that the Hotcat has the best clean tone I've ever heard, How that translates into such an overdrive baffles me.

Stupid thing was I bought it after testing it, and I loved the gain channel too at that time.
After a few weeks the 'tone' disappeared. Techs didn't find anything wrong with it.
I started doubting my ears! Plus it was so heavy and the loop sucked.
Sold it.

 

[theliving]

Ok, test re-done

I re-did the test with Shasha's suggestion that I turn the input to 2 o'clock and I think my output is good into the soundcard and played a random riff through a few presets and then through my UAD Nigel for comparison. I think using the standard distortion presets instead of my own patches is the right way to do this. The sound is the same whether I go through the sound card, or straight from the Axe into my Dynaudio Bm5a's. I'm playing an american deluxe strat with the bridge pickup, all controls up.

 

[theliving]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Here's another two presets:

These sound horrible to me (except the uad). I swapped out all the cables but it wasn't that. The guitar I have with the hottest pickups is a Yamaha semi-hollow and I still have to hack at it with the input dial maxed to get a red light.

Could it be it's not operator error?

Oh, it's weird too b/c I can get some nice clean tones (though I had to really work at it).

 

[joegold]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Post the presets you're using so we can see your settings.

 

[shasha]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Still sounds like the levels are too low going into the soundcard to me. It's late so I had to use my headphones and I had to crank it up pretty loud.


EDIT: Just checked them in an editor. You aren't going above -15dB on any of these clips. That's too low and you will get granulation noise and are limiting your SNR and usable resolution big time. It may be because I suggested lowering the input gain, but the drive sounds right, it just sounds like it's hitting the A>D converters to low. Try adjusting the output level of the Axe-FX and the input gain of your soundcard.

What are you using to record with (sound card and application)? If there's a meter of any kind try to use it to get a good level around -3dB at your peaks and see if that helps.

I'm just wondering if there is a menu setting or something that I can't seem to remember.

 

[DieSchmalle]

Re: Third day with the Axe, definitely doing something wrong

Do you use the front input?
Is 'analog front' chosen as 'input souce' in the I/O settings?