Starting point for Iommi’s tone on Paranoid album (Laney)

J

Jagermeistro

Member
I’m hoping some of the knowledgeable amp aficionados may be able to weigh in on a good starting point to achieve Tony Iommi’s tone on the Paranoid album. My understanding is he used Laney amps, either LA100SM or LA30BL and I don’t think any Laney amps are modeled in the Axe? Also Laney 4x12 cabs. Anyone with any ideas would be greatly appreciated. - Thanks
 
I saw them quite a few times in that era and they were using two 100w Laney amps with four 4x12 Laney cabinets, same for Iommi and Butler, very impressive at the time.
Olly Alcock used 60W Laney amps at that time, he told me it sounded better having them running flat out rather than a 100W running at below max volume. Sabbath however had the 100W running flat out.
I've always thought of Laney amps as being very similar to Marshall but slightly cleaner with perhaps more treble while Orange sounded like a Marshall with more bass.
This seems to agree with what, YetAnotherOne, said.
 
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I think the Laney LA100BL Supergroup is based on the earlier 100W Plexi with the shared cathode (LA100SM and LA30BL are recent reissue models). Start with the ‘69 or ‘70 plexi models.

The supergroups ran significantly higher plate voltages than Marshall’s and also used Partridge iron. Play with decreasing the transformer match to bulk up the output section for a more raw tone. A little goes a long way here.

Iommi plugged into the normal input rather than the bright and turned Presence, Mid, Treble to 10 and Bass to zero.

I don’t think there’s an exact rangemaster model but use the treble booster and just adjust gain, tone, and amp gain to taste.

The Laney cabs used a variety of speaker makes, I remember seeing aluminum domed speakers in Iommi’s cabs in some old pics. That would be the Goodman’s but Fane and Celestion are also good candidates.

Iommi initally ran two 50w Plexi’s before Laney offered to sponsor him so you should be able to get pretty close.
Good luck!
 
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lastcaress83 said:
I think the Laney LA100BL Supergroup is based on the earlier 100W Plexi with the shared cathode (LA100SM and LA30BL are recent reissue models). Start with the ‘69 or ‘70 plexi models.

The supergroups ran significantly higher plate voltages than Marshall’s and also used Partridge iron. Play with decreasing the transformer match to bulk up the output section for a more raw tone. A little goes a long way here.

Iommi plugged into the normal input rather than the bright and turned Presence, Mid, Treble to 10 and Bass to zero.

I don’t think there’s an exact rangemaster model but use the treble booster and just adjust gain, tone, and amp gain to taste.

The Laney cabs used a variety of speaker makes, I remember seeing aluminum domed speakers in Iommi’s cabs in some old pics. That would be the Goodman’s but Fane and Celestion are also good candidates.

Iommi initally ran two 50w Plexi’s before Laney offered to sponsor him so you should be able to get pretty close.
Good luck!
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This is great stuff. Thanks for sharing!
 
I wouldn’t use a plexi to get the Laney Supergroup sound, they are pretty different in the low end.

I have the Laney LA Studio Supergroup, the 3 watt head with built in two notes cab IR. Pair it with the Black Country Iommi boost pedal and it’s 99.9% spot on early Sabbath tone. Awesome looking amp too with the retro knobs and white panel…..

Anyways, Marshall’s in my experience don’t have the low end of a Laney. My SV20 for example has way more upper mids, the typical Marshall “kerrang”, but doesn’t sound like Sabbath

Now Geezer is a huge part of Iommi’s tone, but the Laney sound is too. Those Supergroup amps are very vintage sounding, and have a really big bottom. When you hit them with a treble booster, which they 100% need as even dimed they don’t sound like Sabbath, they really come alive and you get that big but not totally distorted Sabbath sound. It’s not all that dirty, it’s not very tight, but it’s THAT sound.




Given we don’t have a Supergroup, I’d try something like a JTM and of course treble boost. Your not getting the tone from the amp alone so plexis and JCMs etc are going to nail it, Bassman, JTM45, etc are where I’d start

Or get the little Laney LA Studio and run the line out into the Axe, then you’ve got Iommi’s exact rig lol
 
$
Chuck P said:
Am I understanding this right - $1150 for a three watt amplifier?
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3 watts or .1 watt lol. It’s actually loud as hell for just 3 watts though…

Part of what you paying for is also it has a built in reactive load box and the two notes IR loader, so you can crank it and have a line out into an interface or FOH without needing a cab or reactive load box etc

It’s also built in the UK and a Laney so just like Marshall, you pay a bit more in the States. I bought mine from the UK for like $750. I already have a step up transformer for my UK spec Marshall’s and Orange amps so no issue with it taking 230v.

It nails that vintage Laney sound though, looks the part, works great at home volumes, etc, so not great bang for the buck, but still a pretty cool amp

You can pay more for those 1 watt Marshall’s so that is even worse value per watt lol
 
lqdsnddist said:
I wouldn’t use a plexi to get the Laney Supergroup sound, they are pretty different in the low end.

I have the Laney LA Studio Supergroup, the 3 watt head with built in two notes cab IR. Pair it with the Black Country Iommi boost pedal and it’s 99.9% spot on early Sabbath tone. Awesome looking amp too with the retro knobs and white panel…..

Anyways, Marshall’s in my experience don’t have the low end of a Laney. My SV20 for example has way more upper mids, the typical Marshall “kerrang”, but doesn’t sound like Sabbath

Now Geezer is a huge part of Iommi’s tone, but the Laney sound is too. Those Supergroup amps are very vintage sounding, and have a really big bottom. When you hit them with a treble booster, which they 100% need as even dimed they don’t sound like Sabbath, they really come alive and you get that big but not totally distorted Sabbath sound. It’s not all that dirty, it’s not very tight, but it’s THAT sound.




Given we don’t have a Supergroup, I’d try something like a JTM and of course treble boost. Your not getting the tone from the amp alone so plexis and JCMs etc are going to nail it, Bassman, JTM45, etc are where I’d start

Or get the little Laney LA Studio and run the line out into the Axe, then you’ve got Iommi’s exact rig lol
Click to expand...

Supergroups may sound a bit different than a plexi but the supergroup schematic is a dead ringer for the 1959 Marshall. Power supply filtering (sag), plate voltage, and transformers are gonna be the only changes responsible for the differences in low end you hear. I’m sure you can get good tones with those other amps but they aren’t as close to the supergroup circuit.

May need some bright cap adjustment too. Obviously we don’t have schems for Cliff’s amps.

https://www.audioservicemanuals.com...-laney-supergroup-100-mki-power-amp-schematic

https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/th...arshall-JMP-Superlead-100W-1959-Schematic.pdf
 
lastcaress83 said:
Supergroups may sound a bit different than a plexi but the supergroup schematic is a dead ringer for the 1959 Marshall. Power supply filtering (sag), plate voltage, and transformers are gonna be the only changes responsible for the differences in low end you hear. I’m sure you can get good tones with those other amps but they aren’t as close to the supergroup circuit.

May need some bright cap adjustment too. Obviously we don’t have schems for Cliff’s amps.

https://www.audioservicemanuals.com...-laney-supergroup-100-mki-power-amp-schematic

https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/th...arshall-JMP-Superlead-100W-1959-Schematic.pdf
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I was afraid they would sound too similar, I already have a SV20 and thought another 4 hole NVM British style amp was going to be really redundant, but they don’t sound the same to my ears, the Sv20 sounds like a Marshall both clean and dirty, the Supergroup has a different clean and doesn’t get the Marshall dirt, even jumped. The Marshall treble input also is way thinner than the Laney’s equivalent input. Some of this might be down to the SV20 not being an ideal “plexi”, but overall I think it’s pretty close, and to me, the SV20 with treble boost just doesn’t get that Iommi tone, while the Laney is unmissable Sabbath.

It’s actually about all I like the Laney for surprisingly, as the Sv20 has way nicer cleaners, gets more of a proper rock Marshall tone with boost, does edge of gain etc.

The Laney just is a bit bland, not enough gain etc, but hit it with a treble booster and it does that Sabbath thing.

Listen to any Laney Supergroup vids like Andertons and it doesn’t sound like a Marshall, doesn’t sound like Iommi. Doesn’t sound worth the money IMO lol

But somehow with a treble booster, ideally the Iommi one, like in Glenn’s video, and it’s perfect
 
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lastcaress83 said:
I think the Laney LA100BL Supergroup is based on the earlier 100W Plexi with the shared cathode (LA100SM and LA30BL are recent reissue models). Start with the ‘69 or ‘70 plexi models.

The supergroups ran significantly higher plate voltages than Marshall’s and also used Partridge iron. Play with decreasing the transformer match to bulk up the output section for a more raw tone. A little goes a long way here.

Iommi plugged into the normal input rather than the bright and turned Presence, Mid, Treble to 10 and Bass to zero.

I don’t think there’s an exact rangemaster model but use the treble booster and just adjust gain, tone, and amp gain to taste.

The Laney cabs used a variety of speaker makes, I remember seeing aluminum domed speakers in Iommi’s cabs in some old pics. That would be the Goodman’s but Fane and Celestion are also good candidates.

Iommi initally ran two 50w Plexi’s before Laney offered to sponsor him so you should be able to get pretty close.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the transformer match tip. I never tweaked that before but it definitely does make a difference.
 
The closest I got was on the solo for Iron Man on Axe-fx II.I haven't tried on the III.



I looked up the old post for settings:
Shiva lead - drive 4, bass 4, mid 7.8, treb 6.4, no bright, pres 5, depth 0, master 9
Treb boost - drive 5, tone 2, level 10
cab - factory 44 (4x12 Recto V30 [own hammer]) - I also added a bit of room in the IIs cab block
a little reverb

I don't know if ti will sound anywhere close these days.
 
This just popped up on my stream so a bit more timely info about the Laney Supergroup and voicing of those amps to help dialing in the tone

Really needs the treble booster though as that is a key ingredient IMO

 
For me, that tone is very much about the right guitar. I don't think any of these videos really captures it.
 
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