Star Wars Episode VII Teaser Trailer

[Ben.Last]

It's not non-functional. All you've seen has been about 2 seconds of the thing on screen. Do you really think they're not going to give the guy a specific fighting style with that thing.

You must live in misery, walking around getting bent out of shape about stuff like this.

 

[Womac911]

It's not non-functional. All you've seen has been about 2 seconds of the thing on screen. Do you really think they're not going to give the guy a specific fighting style with that thing.

You must live in misery, walking around getting bent out of shape about stuff like this.

Stiff-as-board-fu perhaps?

I'm not miserable. However, I'm not the only one. Washington Post consulted a master bladesmith... several have spoken out.

Master bladesmith: New lightsaber design is a terrible idea - The Washington Post

The first trailer for Star Wars: The Force Awakens dropped this morning. And almost immediately, people began commenting on the design of a Sith lightsaber with what appears to be mini-blades shooting out of the hilt as a sort of crossguard.

So we asked a certified master bladesmith who specializes in swords: Is there any point to having a crossguard on your lightsaber?

"The idea behind a crossguard on any blade is to protect the swordsman's hand from another person's blade," explains Kevin Cashen from his home in Michigan. So it might not seem so crazy for lightsabers to have cross guards, especially given the tendency for hand amputations in Star Wars film series.

But Cashen says the lightsaber design would likely leave the wielder's hands in even greater peril.

"That would be very bad to have around your hand," said Cashen. Even with more traditional hilts, larger crossguards can often snag the users more than it can do something against the opponent, he said.

And a weaponized crossguard with plasma-like blades could be a disaster for a user, especially if they engaged in the more acrobatic style of combat deployed in the prequel trilogy. "That hilt would just take you apart if you started to do a lot of complex spinning," said Cashen.

There is a side function of crossguards where the mini-blades might be helpful, though. Sometimes crossguards could be used to bash opponents at close range, said Cashen.

But that's basically the only use he could see for the lightsaber-bladed crossguard. And that specific function doesn't make up for the dubious nature of the design. "The problem is the other 80 percent of the time you'd be in grave danger of searing yourself," he said.

Lightsabers have seen little variation since being introduced in the first Star Wars Film in 1977, with the exception of the dual-ended lightsaber wielded by Darth Maul in Star Wars I: The Phantom Menace.

 

[Sixstring]

I can't believe this movie is still going, I was 11 years old and can still remember standing in line all day with my mom to buy tickets to see it. There has never been a movie sense that I have done that for.

 

[Randy4Guitars]

Lol at the "George Lucas Special Edition" trailer:

Man this is sidesplitting funny.

 

[John Tisdale]

I think it looks cool as hell, and if he can swing it around like a mad man without cutting his arm off, then it's even more cool.

If you don't think it looks cool, or you're overly worried about physics, well, then go watch a documentary on buildings of the 20th century. Buildings of the 20th century fit right in with physics, and look nothing like a lightsaber, so you should be very happy.

 

[NeoSound]

Sorry, but you're wrong. Disregard the light/lazer physics and narrative stuff altogether.

What I'm talking about here is the crossguard being "laser" as well. What happens when you use a sword? The sword swings around, rotates in the hand, in all manner of direction. With that design, if you cock your hand/wrist at any angle, the crossguard performs a nice amputation about midway between the wrist an elbow. If you'd like, I can shoot a short video of myself with one of my broadswords as an example.

I've got almost 20 years of swordfighting under my belt, and about 15 as a sword maker, including film props. I started my apprenticeship when I was about 12. I made my last sword in 1998.

Some pics of the old shop.

The old guy in the wheelchair was my teacher..as well as everyone else in that group.. Was the oldest living sword-maker in the US, possibly anywhere else. He passed away Februrary 28th 2012 at 90 years. He started making swords during the Korean war. The guy in bright armour behind him? Dragon Dronet, founder of Renegade Effects, and friend to Bob Anderson, the original Star Wars sword-master. The hot Asian chick behind him? The old guy's girlfriend...

we're a bunch of weirdos.

Awesome stuff! Now if you would channel that energy or ahem (Force) into guitar building what could you come up with?

 

[sundance_kiddsg]

was looking for the lens flare and sure enough, wasn't disappointed!:encouragement:
oh, and on the light saber being unrealistic?
it's a movie, nothing in it is real...
except for what carrie fisher did to me in her gold bikini 30 years ago, oh that was very real, a force awakened indeed...

 

[clarky]

So I watched "Empire" with my 5 year old son and even had a video camera ready for the "big reveal", and... nothing. Afterwards I asked him what he thought about Vader being Luke's Father. He thought for a moment, and then said:

"So Darth Vader is the second most powerful person in the galaxy after The Emperor, right? So Luke should have joined with Darth Vader and ruled the galaxy with him and they would have been boss of all the storm trooper guys and together they could probably beat the Emperor guy and then no one could tell them what to do."

Oh my god, I'm raising a Sith!

he has clearly been turned to the dark side...
you need to keep a close eye on him..
you know that this can lead to the worst possible eventuality..
he could end up playing Telecasters....
nip this in the bud... and nip it soon...

 

[clarky]

Not counting physics, which I don't care about when it comes to lightsabers (cause hell, they're cool as hell) nonfunctional design has always irritated the crap out of me, especially when it comes to weapons. Much like this useless "guitar".

that's a Tele style neck..
so I reckon it's been stuck on to make it about as playable as it can be...

 

[Horganovski]

Ok we get it, you don't like Teles for some weird reason

 

[KG MD]

While I agree with the "relax, it's only a movie" concept to an extent, there are certainly movies or TV shows I've seen where the inaccuracies make it impossible to enjoy the movie. To say "well, NONE of it is real" doesn't really change that opinion. It might not be REAL, but it has to be believable enough to make you care what happens.
I certainly hope the limitations / advantages of the new light saber are thought out and applied, not just for show.

 

[Womac911]

Awesome stuff! Now if you would channel that energy or ahem (Force) into guitar building what could you come up with?

That's why I quit making weapons. I went to work for Warmoth in 1996, then two other guitar companies, now I do my own thing.

I assume nobody noticed the guitar picture has the neck rotated 180 degrees, and that the picking area of the string is located on the "back" of the body while the fretting is located on the front?

 

[Ben.Last]

I noticed. I assumed there was some kind of logic behind it, but I didn't really have any desire to turn this thread that's about a movie trailer into an off topic discussion about the potential purpose behind doing such a thing.

 

[Womac911]

was looking for the lens flare and sure enough, wasn't disappointed!:encouragement:
oh, and on the light saber being unrealistic?
it's a movie, nothing in it is real...
.

Unrealistic is not the point, and is far from it. I'm a huge fan of ligthsabers and the theory behind them.
The purpose of a weapon is to injure the opponent, not the wielder. The long crossguard gets in the way. This is part of why Katanas have a small, round tsuba (guard) that does not interfere with movement, or why many swords have a crossguard that is angled upwards, away from the wrist. The lasercrossguard severs the wrist.
Even if it were a real sword, suppose the crossguard were sharpened, like the blade. You would still sever your wrist.

 

[Ben.Last]

Katanas have round guards. A round guard as wide as a claymore's straight guard obviously wouldn't work at all in any context, so it's not even an analogous situation. Could or could not someone that was adept enough with the weapon twirl a blade with a straight, sharp crossguard just as they would a blade with no guard, especially if, unlike a claymore, it was conceivable that they were using the sword with one hand while doing so?

 

[Womac911]

Katanas have round guards. A round guard as wide as a claymore's straight guard obviously wouldn't work at all in any context, so it's not even an analogous situation. Could or could not someone that was adept enough with the weapon twirl a blade with a straight, sharp crossguard just as they would a blade with no guard, especially if, unlike a claymore, it was conceivable that they were using the sword with one hand while doing so?

I already said that, and made no comparison to a Katana guard being as wide as a Claymore guard. Comprehension.
The Claymore was redesigned later so that the guard was angled upwards, as I mentioned in my previous post. This was done so as not to interfere with range of motion, as well as to catch and break a blade. Range of motion is important.
Sure, someone adept enough could do that. I can do it. But I'm not that stupid to do it with a shark with lazers on it's head :hororr:

They should have designed it with an upward angle to the crossguard. NO problem.

 

[Ben.Last]

I already said that, and made no comparison to a Katana guard being as wide as a Claymore guard. Comprehension.

My comprehension's fine. Stop trying your damnedest to be a condescending prick.

I can do it. But I'm not that stupid to do it with a shark with lazers on it's head :hororr:

Thank you. You're not a jedi or sith. You can manage that but you can't jump 20 feet in the air, nor can you pull objects with your mind, meaning that it would conceivably be even easier for the character that's wielding the thing in the film to do. Thank you for proving my point, and pointing out how idiotic the whining about this thing is.

 

[Womac911]

My comprehension's fine. Stop trying your damnedest to be a condescending prick.




.

Wasn't trying to be a condescending prick, sorry if I was. Just try to help you realize the horrible design flaw.

Hey, I'll admit freely that I'm not a very good guitar player. In fact, as a player, I kinda really suck, which is why I wound up building them instead. At the same time, I wonder what your qualifications are as a sword designer/fighter are. I don't pretend to know a darn thing about myxolidian or phrygian modes or music theory. But those things that I do grasp have a tendency to consume me till I've learned everything there is to know about it. Swords and swordplay being my original passion in life. Thus, I feel qualified to argue my point

 

[Ben.Last]

Hey, I'll admit freely that I'm not a very good guitar player. In fact, as a player, I kinda really suck, which is why I wound up building them instead. At the same time, I wonder what your qualifications are as a sword designer/fighter are. I don't pretend to know a darn thing about myxolidian or phrygian modes or music theory. But those things that I do grasp have a tendency to consume me till I've learned everything there is to know about it. Swords and swordplay being my original passion in life. Thus, I feel qualified to argue my point

Other than a passing understanding through doing martial arts, none. I do know a shit ton about fighting of all kinds in movies and what looks cool on screen.

And I just supplemented my lack of knowledge by asking you if you could do what you said would be problematic with this thing. You said you could. So, extrapolate that out to a jedi that would most likely be way more adept than you, due to their ability to use the force in addition to their training (would you train to sword fight while blindfolded? Luke did), and you have a scenario where your sole point, that this thing wouldn't work in a realistic situation (setting aside the "but it looks cool" factor for a second) has been negated by your own admission. I don't need any qualifications; the guy that says he's qualified refuted the idea that that cross guard would be unusable.

 

[Womac911]

Other than a passing understanding through doing martial arts, none. I do know a shit ton about fighting of all kinds in movies and what looks cool on screen.

And I just supplemented my lack of knowledge by asking you if you could do what you said would be problematic with this thing. You said you could. So, extrapolate that out to a jedi that would most likely be way more adept than you, due to their ability to use the force in addition to their training (would you train to sword fight while blindfolded? Luke did), and you have a scenario where your sole point, that this thing wouldn't work in a realistic situation (setting aside the "but it looks cool" factor for a second) has been negated by your own admission. I don't need any qualifications; the guy that says he's qualified refuted the idea that that cross guard would be unusable.

What you see in movies bears little to no resemblance to actual fighting, save for very few movies. Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai is very close to reality, as were all his movies. Star Wars is loosely based on Kendo.
Here's a couple pictures that I hope will demonstrate why that crossguard is dangerous.

With a reverse grip, extremely dangerous. As you can see, the crossguard contacts my wrist as I cock my weapon to strike,

Not so much on the regular grip because the range is more limited in that direction, but if I were to switch to a reverse grip during a move, the crossguard spins and will intersect my wrist. There are motions that will intersect the crossguard with the wrist, though.

The only safe action would be this. (actually, I should have held the blade straight outward, so that no intersection is possible)