Wish Song/Set list possible extras

Moondog Wily

Experienced
The new song/set list is an incredible new feature and I know it is going to make my life easier and more manageable especially in live situations! Thanks to all involved for bringing this new feature to us free of charge, it is above and beyond the call of duty IMO!! Although some may say "who could ask for anything more", others might say "I want mixed berries on this delicious cheesecake you just served me"!!!

I felt that the discussion on this topic in the 19.06 beta release thread had become a bit long in the tooth, and thought it would be best to start a wish list for what users may like to have with this freshly opened can of worms ;~)) Here are my wishes, in no particular order!

1. I would like the space to have more songs and setlists. I understand that X amount of memory was allocated for this new feature and as a programmer of 30+ years, I get it, but it is never the less, a desire I have for various reasons.

2. I would like more sections available within a song. As I talked about in the 19.06 beta release thread (post #26), I would like to be able to hit a single switch to be able to move through the entire song's sections. The sections that I need may be duplicated throughout the song (verses use same preset/scene, as do chorus parts, etc.) and I could have switches for sections 1-6, but the less I have to think about which switch to hit, the easier it is for me to play and manage my sounds (I am after all, playing guitar, singing and using each foot to play drum pedals for percussion so the less I have to keep track of with switches, the more I can do with percussion). Under this proposed scenario (with say 12 or more sections available), I can have the whole song be cycled through with a single foot switch. I would just keep hitting switch 1 on my FC12 and I am at the next section. Admin M@ provided some workarounds on how this could be done (post #29), but IMO those workarounds do not compare with the simplicity that this modification would offer. Both options of those workarounds would reduce the already limited amount of songs I could put in the setlists. Some may say "well what if you hit the switch twice, then you are out of sync". Well, switch 2 on the FC could go back one section if I were to make that mistake. Barring any mistakes in my tap dancing though, one switch could carry me through the entire song and that would be a true treasure for me! One possible update that could provide the same functionality is, if we were able to program into the song, the order in which sections are called. So I have a song in the set list, and in that songs setup I tell it, hit switch 1 and it goes to section 2, hit that same switch again, and it will take me to section 3, hit it again and it takes me back to section 2, next hit takes me to section 4, etc. Within the song setup, you could program what a single switch does for the successive hit. This way, we can keep the 6 sections as it is, but be able to program the song to cycle through those sections in a pre-defined sequence with the use of a single foot switch!

3. Tempo per song! Several users have talked about this option (and this option has it's own wish lists AFIK), and I am all for it!! As some have said, tapping in the correct tempo between songs can be difficult to accomplish when things are moving fast, and being able to store that tempo within each song would be a wonderful feature to have rather than having to use another preset with the proper tempo. I can't think of a better place to put it than in the new song list setup options.

The continued work and support of the FAS team is a dream to say the least! I know of zero products I have ever owned that provide so much value, and continue to give us even more at zero additional cost! It is like some sort of musical equipment surreal fantasy game because I don't understand how it can be true and can continue to get better ;~)) So thanks again to all involved in making these dreamy products become the impossible dreams! But if I could have some additional layers on this dream cake, the above are 3 of the toppings I would happily chew on!!!
 
1. I would like the space to have more songs and setlists. I understand that X amount of memory was allocated for this new feature and as a programmer of 30+ years, I get it, but it is never the less, a desire I have for various reasons.
I don't think you're going to get more... Storage is not memory, but in either case they are physical things that can't be changed. It would require new hardware.
 
I don't think you're going to get more... Storage is not memory, but in either case they are physical things that can't be changed. It would require new hardware.
A man can dream though! Perhaps we could use the computer an Axe FXIII is hooked up to for swapping in/out larger set/song lists (granted the front panel clique would not be able to take advantage of such an offering)!! Perhaps some memory/storage that was previously used for feature X is no longer needed (X was consolidated or optimized) and that storage/memory can now be used for expanding this list size!!! My wish stands ;~)) Thanks for the response!!!!
 
I don't think you're going to get more... Storage is not memory, but in either case they are physical things that can't be changed. It would require new hardware.
The memory and storage use for this kind of feature should be pretty small.

Out of curiosity I tried generating what I think a JSON data structure of a setlist dataset might look like. A JSON file containing 10 set lists, with 64 songs each and 12 sections for every song is about 700 KB unminified and unoptimized. That's honestly not a lot for doubling the amount of data.
 
The memory and storage use for this kind of feature should be pretty small.

Out of curiosity I tried generating what I think a JSON data structure of a setlist dataset might look like. A JSON file containing 10 set lists, with 64 songs each and 12 sections for every song is about 700 KB unminified and unoptimized. That's honestly not a lot for doubling the amount of data.
I have exported the factory setlists and songlists. They are XML files with sizes of 3.05kb (all set lists file) and 44kb (all songs file). If I populate the fields with data:
song names with 10 characters
1-6 section names with 10 characters each
preset number with 4 characters
in the songlist and the setlist file with
10 characters for the 4 setlist names
3 characters for song IDs
I get files sizes of 3.32kb and 49.6kb (also unminified and unoptimized). That is a total of current layout using a 52.92kb when fully populated (unless of course those fields need more characters than listed here, in which case, we would need to find another 3kb or so)! I will contact my friends in the Georgia AG Office and ask them if they can find me another 52,920 votes so we can double the song list size!!!
 
I have exported the factory setlists and songlists. They are XML files with sizes of 3.05kb (all set lists file) and 44kb (all songs file). If I populate the fields with data:
song names with 10 characters
1-6 section names with 10 characters each
preset number with 4 characters
in the songlist and the setlist file with
10 characters for the 4 setlist names
3 characters for song IDs
I get files sizes of 3.32kb and 49.6kb (also unminified and unoptimized). That is a total of current layout using a 52.92kb when fully populated (unless of course those fields need more characters than listed here, in which case, we would need to find another 3kb or so)! I will contact my friends in the Georgia AG Office and ask them if they can find me another 52,920 votes so we can double the song list size!!!
Even better. Mine was using entirely unique objects for everything which increases dataset size a lot.
 
I have finally sat down to play with the new setlist/songlist function and here is what I have found so far!

1. I have found that I can get the bulk work done of importing songs by editing the XML file that you get when you export, and then importing it back in. I usually use Notepad++ for complex Search & Replace, but considering these were pretty easy, it can be done in almost any text editor that has S&R capabilities and I used Dreamweaver. I was able to do search and replace on the Section Names, preset number, scene number etc., which gave me a fully populated list of 128 songs which had my default preset and scenes therein, inserted. I have about a dozen songs that I will have different presets for, but the other 40+ songs all use one preset and its various scenes (with an occasional effect thrown in), so rather than putting each song in and then clicking on each song section for preset, scene and name of section, I was able to get them all populated in a minute or two by searching and replacing in the XML and then importing it to Axe! I will most likely write some script or a spreadsheet macro to automate this process down the road a bit, so that I can take my list of songs in a spreadsheet when modified and output a XML file with this formatting and structure to import into the Axe FX. Would be great if I could just throw a CSV or XLS with structured columns and rows and the Axe Edit pulls it in to proper setlist/songlist fields, but that is not here now so a workaround will have to be implemented for easing this import/export/modification process.

2. The P# in the "Song Sections" area and the S# are not in sync (P# is zero based in machine, but 1 based in the XML, S# is 1 based in both machine and XML). So in the XML (that you get from exporting a song list) I have the following structure for a song:

<Song id="0" name="Bad Moon R">
<Section name="INTRO" preset="992" scene="5"/>
<Section name="VERSE" preset="992" scene="6"/>
<Section name="CHORUS" preset="992" scene="7"/>
<Section name="BRIDGE" preset="992" scene="8"/>
<Section name="OUTRO" preset="992" scene="5"/>
<Section name="LEAD" preset="992" scene="4"/>
</Song>

The preset in the example above I actually want is 991, but if I put that in the XML file, it pulls up preset 990 once imported because that number in the machine is a 0 based number (zero is first number, not 1) so preset 991 (zero base adjusted) in your machine is preset 992 in the XML. But with the scenes, 1=1, so there you put the actual scene number, not your scene number +1 in the XML scene="".

3. If you get an import error saying "0 files will be overwritten", there is most likely a flaw in the XML document (something in the content that is not supported)! In my testing, it seems that the "&" symbol in song/scene names can cause this but the "@" symbol does NOT cause this. It would be great to have a list of special characters that are/not allowed in these name fields so that I can avoid them when editing my XML outside of the system.

4. It seems that the XML document will allow more than 10 characters in the fields and that will NOT affect the import process of that XML, however the display of those characters >10 will be getting chopped off in views and other scenarios as the display systems are only set to support 10 characters for display. In addition, based on comments made about the allocated space for this information being very minimal, it could poach on some system limits, but I have not tested that far.

Overall, this is a dream for me as I was always running a spreadsheet on my laptop for my setlist, and did not want to create special presets per song, now I can ditch that spreadsheet (although I was also rating the performance each time I did a song via that spreadsheet, so I will need to figure out a new way to keep track of my ratings). Saves me a lot of time and will save me even more in the long run!! Thanks again to the team for giving us this fantastic new feature, LOVIN' IT!!!
 
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The memory and storage use for this kind of feature should be pretty small.
Matt has already stated that the storage allocated for this feature was completely consumed with this implementation.

Whether it's large or small, I don't know and I think is not really relevant. If there's no more, there's no more. If there is more then Fractal could decide to allocate it for this or reserve it for something in the future.
 
If storage's a problem then it is what it is, not so much to do about it, but I too would love to get more sections per song to just scroll through (as stated in the OP). Again , the best example I can think of is Jordan Rudess from Dream Theater who's just have one footswitch to get through all the sounds programmed in order per song in a set list. If you could assign one switch to Section incr/dec +1 and another one to -1 would be excellent. Or +1 on press and -1 on hold if you wanna save the second switch for another set of functions.

And add another HUGE +1 to per song tempo. Thankfully Matt said it's being discussed by the team, so I'm hopeful.
 
I'd agree that most songs would have 6 or less Sections (ie different parts like verse, chorus, solo, etc)... for example, I rarely have more than 4-5 Scenes for any one song.

But having only 6 "Steps" available per song is very limiting. Many (if not most) songs have a lot more than 6 changes going through different parts - for example, a rock or pop song that goes intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, solo, verse, chorus, outro is just one of many very common structures that have more than 6 changes but only 5 actual parts. And that's a pretty simple song. Once you start using dedicated switches for "Section 1", "Section 2", Section Toggle, etc, that just seems like a different way of doing exactly what Scenes already do.

If there's no room in memory/storage/whatever, then I understand... it just seems like a big shortcoming in an otherwise killer feature. And the workarounds just leave us with fewer songs to work with and introduce issues of their own.

I'd love to be able to just have one switch to step on for "next sound" w/out having to use other switches to go back and forth, etc... and to have an entire (real) song's worth of steps available in one (Axe) song. This is what appears to be the true power of using Sections - set up your entire gig and just step through your whole set like the Jordan Rudess example. You never have to think about "do I hit the Next Section button, or do I have to go to the Next Song first to get to step 7?"

(of course, another cool thing about Sections is that you can pull in parts from different presets - which is pretty killer!)

And +1 for song Tempo. My ideal would be to be able to set it, or leave it "blank" so you can just tap it in as needed.
 
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