Solid state power amps and guitar cabs

sarge

sarge

Power User
So who is going this route and what do you think?

I think I remember reading at one point this was the route Cliff went. Atleast with Gen 1. Something about the air being pushed by a 4x12??? Can't be sure though.

Admittedly my experimenting with FRFR was probably not long enough to draw a reliable conclusion. But in the brief time I sued the Atomic reactor powered cab, I found I liked real guitar cabs MUCH more.

I thought the reactor sounded great at lower then drummer volumes pointed straight at my head. The moment I walked out of the sweet spot I could barely hear it.

When I used the atomic power amp through a guitar cab, different story entirely. It had the real amp feel, and the sound coverage was what I would suspect from a real guitar amp.

Have been going back and forth for a few years now. Really just want to go out and get a Carvin DCM1540L and be done with it. It seems to get good enough reviews. I don't care about this or that slight nuence that only a dog can hear. It is light weight and atleast seems to have the power to push a 4x12 or 2x12 hard enough that headroom when playing with the heaviest hitting drummers would not be an issue.
 
I'm going this route at least for the time being. It's primarily because that's what I've always been used to - I've always had a cab (or big combo) in a certain position by me moving air.

I also haven't quite got my head around full range, at least not yet. Yes, they are suppose to be flat and even to accurately reproduce whatever source is feeding them BUT every speaker, and the box its housed in, will have its own characteristics no matter what. If it didn't then every quality HIFI speaker on the market would sound identical. So feeding a modelled emulation of a speaker and its cabinet through another speaker and its cabinet, however transparent its been designed to be, is never going to be quite the same as just listening to a real cab. For direct recording it's a different matter - the Axe's cab sims are amazing.

That said, the Axe-FX II sounds great through my small KRK studio monitors with all models on so I can see why people are happy with the various full range set-ups but, as you say, not quite like having an amp and a cab if that's what you like and are expecting.
 
sarge said:
So who is going this route and what do you think?

I think I remember reading at one point this was the route Cliff went. Atleast with Gen 1. Something about the air being pushed by a 4x12??? Can't be sure though.

Admittedly my experimenting with FRFR was probably not long enough to draw a reliable conclusion. But in the brief time I sued the Atomic reactor powered cab, I found I liked real guitar cabs MUCH more.

I thought the reactor sounded great at lower then drummer volumes pointed straight at my head. The moment I walked out of the sweet spot I could barely hear it.

When I used the atomic power amp through a guitar cab, different story entirely. It had the real amp feel, and the sound coverage was what I would suspect from a real guitar amp.

Have been going back and forth for a few years now. Really just want to go out and get a Carvin DCM1540L and be done with it. It seems to get good enough reviews. I don't care about this or that slight nuence that only a dog can hear. It is light weight and atleast seems to have the power to push a 4x12 or 2x12 hard enough that headroom when playing with the heaviest hitting drummers would not be an issue.
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I've used several power amps through 2 4x12's, both tube and SS (VHT 2-50-2, Carvin TS100, Atomic 50/50, Crown XLS 1000, Rocktron Velocity 300, Carvin DCM1540L). For SS, I don't think you would be dissappointed with the DCM1540L. The Atomic 50/50 is a killer tube solution, more suited for use with the Axe FX than the VHT IMO.
 
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Really tried to like FRFR but I gave it up. On stage I want the responsiveness the pressure and power behind me. So I ended up with the Ultra/Matrix GT combo and four 2x12 with V30's and GT12K-100's in a stereo setup. Love this wall of sound and stopped trying new stuff entirely. Also no need for this IR quest anymore. Happy guy here!
 
eadgbe said:
Really tried to like FRFR but I gave it up. On stage I want the responsiveness the pressure and power behind me. So I ended up with the Ultra/Matrix GT combo and four 2x12 with V30's and GT12K-100's in a stereo setup. Love this wall of sound and stopped trying new stuff entirely. Also no need for this IR quest anymore. Happy guy here!
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Question; do you mix the speakers in each cabinet? And if you mix them what speaker is micked for the FOH?
 
I wanted to like FR years ago with the Ultra, tried pretty hard but eventually gave up and went SS power into guitar cabs. I remember the feeling of relief.. Ahhh! The cabs just instantly gave me back the sound and feel I was missing and struggling so hard to find on FR.

This is not to say you can't achieve greatness with FR setups, and they have some obvious advantages. I'm thinking of getting in line for a CLR and trying again.. A lot has changed since 2009. The other reason is, my band is currently re-grouping and the new set lists will call for a lot more acoustic parts. It would be really convenient to be able to use the same rig and monitoring for acoustic. Just plug in a piezo pickup and switch to the acoustic preset.
 
coosvandorsten said:
Question; do you mix the speakers in each cabinet? And if you mix them what speaker is micked for the FOH?
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Coos,

2 cabinets have 2 V30 and the other 2 have 2 G12K-100. The V30 cabs on the floor and the G12K cabs on top. That is what I like on stage. No phasing issues :). For the FOH I use Out 1 XLR with a CAB Block IR. So no micking on stage. In the studio I micke them both combined with the Out 1 signal. :)

Easy Peasey

Groetend
 
eadgbe said:
Coos,

2 cabinets have 2 V30 and the other 2 have 2 G12K-100. The V30 cabs on the floor and the G12K cabs on top. That is what I like on stage. No phasing issues :). For the FOH I use Out 1 XLR with a CAB Block IR. So no micking on stage. In the studio I micke them both combined with the Out 1 signal. :)

Easy Peasey

Groetend
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Alles duidelijk! Dank je. I think I go for a few G12-100 as well, the Delta Pro's are not quite what I hoped for.
 
On stage I prefer a power amp and guitar cabinet too.

My Atomic 50/50 is the best but too heavy to carry around alas.
The GT1000FX in my rack does a great job too.

I bring a 2x12 with an EVM and Austin Speaker Works KTS-70.
Vibe, power and near-full-range in one package.

A portable rackbag, MFC+acc.in a small case, and double guitarbag on my back ...
I can take it all to/from the car in one go.
 
yek said:
On stage I prefer a power amp and guitar cabinet too.

My Atomic 50/50 is the best but too heavy to carry around alas.
The GT1000FX in my rack does a great job too.

I bring a 2x12 with an EVM and Austin Speaker Works KTS-70.
Vibe, power and near-full-range in one package.
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Interesting.
With those speakers you running cab sims on or off?
 
This thread is exactly how I feel, and what I went through with the Axe FX. I liked it going through FRFR, which I did for a couple years... But when I decided to go back to amp/cab. I felt like I had finally found what I was looking for. The sound... The feel. Everything. And I too use the DCM1540L. You won't be unhappy with this choice, unless you you use a low quality cabinet.
 
I've used a bunc of FRFR rigs including QSC HPR 122i. Atomic, EV ELX 112, FBT 12ma. With cabs I've used various combinatios of 1x12, 2x12 and 4x12, for power amps ART SLA 2, SLA 1, Carvin HT150; DCM 150, Carvin TS100, Peavey 50/50, Matrix GT800 and currently matrix gt1000 w 4x12 Bogner cabs.
The extra parameters involved w/ FRFR & IR's generally give me a headache. My little brain can barely comprehend the tweakability on the axe so the IR thing makes my head explode. Plus I have cromagnon computer skills and I find myself using the computer more with IR;s which for me is bad.
That being said I will buy a pair of CLR's and see if they can dethrone my matrix/Bogner 4x12's.
 
roodboy said:
I've used a bunc of FRFR rigs including QSC HPR 122i. Atomic, EV ELX 112, FBT 12ma. With cabs I've used various combinatios of 1x12, 2x12 and 4x12, for power amps ART SLA 2, SLA 1, Carvin HT150; DCM 150, Carvin TS100, Peavey 50/50, Matrix GT800 and currently matrix gt1000 w 4x12 Bogner cabs.
The extra parameters involved w/ FRFR & IR's generally give me a headache. My little brain can barely comprehend the tweakability on the axe so the IR thing makes my head explode. Plus I have cromagnon computer skills and I find myself using the computer more with IR;s which for me is bad.
That being said I will buy a pair of CLR's and see if they can dethrone my matrix/Bogner 4x12's.
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I would be interested in hearing your conclusions. I am interested in performance only, the clr would obviously win out in size/weight.
 
I have tried the FRFR as well. 2 Atomic wedges to be precise. I got rid of them after 2 live performances. Not enough punch and power no headroom left. Yes I hear you; we play loud. Got frustrated and went to Engl Invader and 2 - 2 x 12"s. Using the Ultra only as an effects unit oth before and in the effects loop of the Engl (see Axe Change for this set up I have uploaded the 4cm patch). After getting the Axe FX II and the GT1000FX I go through the same 2 x12" s loaded with V 30's. I was close to what I wanted not using the Invader! I tossed the V30's. 1- 2 x 12 is loaded with Celestions G12H and 1 is loaded with Delta pro's. I am running in dual mono. This is a good sound but only when I combine the G12H and the Delta pro's. Each on his own is not satisfactory. Music style is Rock to Metal.
I like to have the cabs loaded with the same speakers because I want to have the same sound to the FOH with 1 mic. Any suggestions? It has to be a neutral sounding powerfull speaker because I also mix in my synth sound from the GR-55 into the Axe FX grid just before the reverb and delay. This is done with the effects loop. So the option of giving a cab sim to the FOH is lost.
 
coosvandorsten said:
I have tried the FRFR as well. 2 Atomic wedges to be precise. I got rid of them after 2 live performances. Not enough punch and power no headroom left. Yes I hear you; we play loud. Got frustrated and went to Engl Invader and 2 - 2 x 12"s. Using the Ultra only as an effects unit oth before and in the effects loop of the Engl (see Axe Change for this set up I have uploaded the 4cm patch). After getting the Axe FX II and the GT1000FX I go through the same 2 x12" s loaded with V 30's. I was close to what I wanted not using the Invader! I tossed the V30's. 1- 2 x 12 is loaded with Celestions G12H and 1 is loaded with Delta pro's. I am running in dual mono. This is a good sound but only when I combine the G12H and the Delta pro's. Each on his own is not satisfactory. Music style is Rock to Metal.
I like to have the cabs loaded with the same speakers because I want to have the same sound to the FOH with 1 mic. Any suggestions? It has to be a neutral sounding powerfull speaker because I also mix in my synth sound from the GR-55 into the Axe FX grid just before the reverb and delay. This is done with the effects loop. So the option of giving a cab sim to the FOH is lost.
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I would try the EVM12L. That's about as neutral as you can get for a guitar speaker and they are really sensitive (100 dB 1watt @ 1 meter) so they don't need a lot of power to get really loud.
 
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