Small FRFR Bookshelf For FM9 - Practice Only

C

ChiroVette

Inspired
I had originally posted a thread about wanting to practice, when alone at home, going through my bedroom home theater system, but I was having all sorts of problems getting the FM9 to play through my PC. It recorded fine into my DAW, which is great, and @GlennO gave me some great advice to accomplish this, which works very well. However, in thinking about this more, I don't really like the idea of practicing through the small home theater speakers, and guitar can be a really hot sound.

So, I think I want to go the FRFR route. But I don't need anything elaborate or large. I own a nice PA system, and in addition to having JBL wedge monitors to do this, as well as all of my tops being able to do double duty as floor monitors, there is no need to go the route of speakers like that, or even the smaller Headrush offerings. This is just for practice, mostly at home.

Are there any low priced, decent sounding bookshelf sized speakers, or studio monitors? Again, I don't mind paying a little more, but if I have to invest in something like a small wedge monitor (like Headrush) or they are going to be more on the expensive side, I still have the option of using a wedge monitor and spending no money. I was even looking at buying something like the Mackie Mackie CR4-X Creative Reference Series 4". They are cheap, but I don't need a pair, and they don't have an XLR input, but they do have TRS. I would prefer XLR and at least passable sound for practicing. Small, bookshelf size is best, and I really only need one.
 
If you want to go the route of small bookshelf/monitor something like the Yamaha HS-5 will do a good job. HS-7 or 8 if you want more bass and volume. They sell them individually so if you don't want stereo you only need to buy one.

I like my Bose S1's for smaller wedges, but they are a bit on the expensive side. I love being able to run off the battery though. I keep them charged and then only need a single plug in for the Fractal gear and I'm good to go. A side benefit I enjoy from having a stereo pair, is that the bluetooth functionality in them gives me a great sound system for the beach/camping/bbq'ing.
 
@Hellbat, the Yamaha looks like a nice offering. It's a little more than I was thinking of spending for a private/practice speaker, but I just looked at it after reading your reply, and I really like the way the interface in the rear is set up, with both TRS and XLR input, and other controls/interface in the rear similar to PA speakers, as well as getting AC power from an IEC cord. The Mackies I looked at, mentioned above, now that I look at them again, kind of look like cheap, glorified computer speakers, with only a hard-wired AC cable, no XLR, and minimal room EQ controls.

I never even considered battery powered speakers for this purpose. Honestly, if I didn't need to plug in the FM9, and could run that off a battery, without breaking the bank, I might consider going this route. But in for a penny, in for a pound, I suppose. If I have to plug the FM9 in anyway, then I'm not sure of the utility of a battery powered frfr speaker.

I will say, on a side note, that historically, I have never liked Bose speakers, but that's a debate that has been raging for decades lol. I think if I were going to go the wireless route for this kind of gear, and were going to spend the extra cash, not to mention being a total JBL fanboy, I would probably consider one of the Eons, probably the Eon One Compact.

Now you have my wheels spinning on the idea of wireless, if I could more easily power the FM9 without the need for a wall outlet of some kind, I would have to really consider that as a possible solution, not to mention that I assume I could also plug a mic into the either the JBL or the Bose as well as the FM9 simultaneously, and have a truly self-contained little PA for live stuff like small beach parties or something.

All that said, I think that I just need to up the bucks, and seriously consider the Yamaha or one like it.
 
Never even saw that one, @marsonic. As I said, huge JBL fanboy here, so that looks like a good choice. I am popping all the suggestions I get into my Amazon shopping cart, just to keep track of them until I decide. But even the 5" driver model looks like way more than able to do what I need it to do, and it's actually less expensive than the HS-5. In truth, the Mackie's would probably do the job well enough, even with only a TRS input. But the JBLs and the Yamaha suggested look like much better choices.

Although, @Hellbat really has my wheels turning. Wireless might be a great way to go, if, say I want to bring my guitar, and backing track setup to the beach or a park or something for a small party with no AC power. Then the only thing I would have to power would be the FM9 and my laptop with my backing track videos. I would at that point need some kind of a generator, but I'm getting waaaaay ahead of myself. I may just buy the JBL you mentioned, or look at some other suggestions that may come into this thread. I can always do the whole wireless + generator thing down the road, if I get ambitious.
 
Okay, so I ended up picking up a JBL 305P MK II, that @marsonic recommended. I didn't put it through it's paces, and didn't listen to any hyper clean presets (such as my Jerry Garcia presets) through it yet. Only my Lukather and Gary Moore presets, which are very dirty. It's s little late to keep going and I want to be a good neighbor.

So I will reserve judgment until I can really go nuts on it during the day.

My initial impressions (again, only dirty sounds/presets so far) is that it's a solid monitor speaker, from a top speaker manufacturer, at a bargain price. Although, I was surprised that the volume wasn't higher. I really had to put the speaker volume knob in the back to about 100% instead of the normal 50%. I also noticed that setting Output 1 on the FM9 to about 75% gave a decent volume, but I am not comfortable setting both of those so high.

I bought it from Sam Ash, so I am considering returning it and going for either the 306P or the 308P instead. The SPL stated in the manuals for all three speakers are:

94db - continuous, and 108 db max for the 305P
92db - continuous, and 110 db max for the 306P
102db - continuous, and 112 db max for the 308P

The 308P seems like the clear winner, and I think it will be at least moderately louder than both of them at continuous use. It's also only $80.00 more than the $129.99 I paid for the 305P. Oh, one thing I found a little surprising is that the THD for all three units is at <10% THD at maximum output with full compressor / limiter engagement, which is at the upper end of acceptable distortion. Obviously, if I want the THD down closer to or below 1%, I would probably have to pay a lot more money just for that. So it looks like for all three speakers, THD is the same, so that part is a wash.

I am also considering another line all together. The reason is I didn't realize that the woofer driver was completely exposed, not even not of those cloth speaker grills to protect the driver. Not sure how much I should care about that. But Sam Ash gives I think 15 days to return it if after playing with it a lot more tomorrow, I decide it's not for me.

I may just bite the ol' bullet, even though I didn't want to, and get something with a nominally higher SPL and a markedly lower THD. I will look at some of the other speakers recommended to me, as maybe this is a budget speaker, and I might want to invest in something at least a little aurally nicer. But when I don't have to worry about waking the neighbors kids (semi attached house) tomorrow during the day, I might find that the 305P is more than enough.
 
ChiroVette said:
The reason is I didn't realize that the woofer driver was completely exposed, not even not of those cloth speaker grills to protect the driver. Not sure how much I should care about that.
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There are almost no studio monitors with grille cloths because there aren't actually any acoustically neutral materials to make them out of. You can find a couple with mostly open metal shrouds over the tweeters and occasionally midrange drivers, but pretty much never over woofers.

Whether that matters to you is totally up to you. I've definitely had cats destroy a cone before (though fortunately it was a near-free speaker, so I didn't care).
 
@marsonic, I don't have cats, lol so I guess I'm just going to have to be careful when moving this around. I didn't realize studio monitors didn't have grill cloths, so that's on me. So that's one concern down. Besides, I have been the owner of several iterations of JBL-centric PA systems for a while now, and I remember in my old, bulky MR series speakers, the tweeters had a nasty tendency of blowing out, and I wouldn't know unless I put sound through them, and put my ear to the horn. Not sure what was up with them, and now those old refrigerator-cabinet speakers are gathering dust anyway, and I have a much better PA these days.

My point is, if I drop the studio monitor and have to replace the driver, lol que sera, it wouldn't be the first time I had to buy a driver and do a DIY install. While writing this response, I just checked the back of the 305P now, and there are like a dozen Phillips-head screws, so it looks like swapping out either the horn or the woofer shouldn't be a big deal, if I end up doing something stupid, and like dropping it or something. No biggie. I'll just have to be more careful with this, or any studio monitor.

The issue now is whether I should keep this one or exchange it, either for a 306P or 308P or just do what I really didn't want to do, and follow my GAS and buy something in the $400.00 to $500.00 range, under the heading of you get what you pay for. I was just playing around with the speaker and the FM9 now, and it is a nice sounding speaker. It is also a little on the low volume side, and I really had to dial up the Output of the FM9 to almost 10 just so that it would keep up with my small, bedroom home theater system. Which I guess is fair, given that this is, for better or for worse, a budget or entry-level monitor.

I mean, seriously, for $129.00 as a sort of practice amp, how can I go wrong? I will play around with it for another day or two and decide if I should bring it back to Sam Ash and exchange it for either of the other two JBLs in the series or just buy something more mid-range, rather than sticking with the entry level 300 series.
 
ChiroVette said:
I mean, seriously, for $129.00 as a sort of practice amp, how can I go wrong? I will play around with it for another day or two and decide if I should bring it back to Sam Ash and exchange it for either of the other two JBLs in the series or just buy something more mid-range, rather than sticking with the entry level 300 series.
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I like that approach. And, I really do like those speakers for the price. Whether they'll work for you really depends on how loud you want to play. It would work for me, but I tend to play pretty quiet in the grand scheme of guitarists. For actual monitoring, I'd add a subwoofer or two on autopilot at this point, and that really does help out with the playback level.

As for breaking them....you know your life. But, I have a set of 18 year old KRKs that are basically fine. I'm sure they're a bit worn, and I don't really use them anymore unless I just need a speaker or two for something quick (I tend to use one as a guitar monitor). But, I've used them as booth monitors (for DJing) at small house parties, moved them between 6 or 7 dorms, apartments, and houses, used them as my monitor speakers for years....no damage. You just have to be careful. And pay attention to how you place and "wedge" them into a car trunk.
 
I recently got a pair of Genelec 8020D. They are only 3" but have some serious deep-end. I find that they sound really similar to the Fender FR-12 (at living room volume at least). This is very non-scientific of course, I'm just comparing this Genelec speaker pair to the PreSonus S8 pair I had before that sounded nothing like the FR-12!
 
Henry said:
I recently got a pair of Genelec 8020D. They are only 3" but have some serious deep-end. I find that they sound really similar to the Fender FR-12 (at living room volume at least). This is very non-scientific of course, I'm just comparing this Genelec speaker pair to the PreSonus S8 pair I had before that sounded nothing like the FR-12!
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The 8020’s are 4 inchers I thought……
 
rockstarjazzcat said:
Small KRK's of various types come to mind first for me as well.
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They're a weird speaker.

The predicted response if you can run them fairly far away from your head (say, 6 feet or so) is actually kinda flat with almost the "right" tilt to fit a lot of people's preferences (at least for the recent versions), but the in-room measurements I've gotten (in a treated room) as well as my subjective experience is that they're pretty scooped (or hyped in the lows and highs)....which actually makes them specifically good at lower volume guitar monitoring with some of the "excitement" from playing louder in tact.

For actually mixing or listening to music at near-ideal volumes (in the 80s dBSPL), I think the scoop makes them sound over-hyped and bad. But for playing quieter, it works out really well, probably by pure coincidence.
 
marsonic said:
They're a weird speaker.

The predicted response if you can run them fairly far away from your head (say, 6 feet or so) is actually kinda flat with almost the "right" tilt to fit a lot of people's preferences (at least for the recent versions), but the in-room measurements I've gotten (in a treated room) as well as my subjective experience is that they're pretty scooped (or hyped in the lows and highs)....which actually makes them specifically good at lower volume guitar monitoring with some of the "excitement" from playing louder in tact.

For actually mixing or listening to music at near-ideal volumes (in the 80s dBSPL), I think the scoop makes them sound over-hyped and bad. But for playing quieter, it works out really well, probably by pure coincidence.
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Perhaps it depends on which ones we're talking about? I don't think about KRK as going for hyped or scooped as their history is in building higher end monitoring. I went for flat response. I'm referring to near field, like a 3' triangle. My old V8s image beautifully and have switches in the back to compensate for listening environment, presence of a sub, or whatever. Think I went for them over the Mackies pushed at the time. You may have more experience with them, I don't know. Are the more inexpensive ones tending towards scooped-ness?
 
rockstarjazzcat said:
Perhaps it depends on which ones we're talking about? I don't think about KRK as going for hyped or scooped as their history is in building higher end monitoring. I went for flat response. I'm referring to near field, like a 3' triangle. My old V8s image beautifully and have switches in the back to compensate for listening environment, presence of a sub, or whatever. Think I went for them over the Mackies pushed at the time. You may have more experience with them, I don't know. Are the more inexpensive ones tending towards scooped-ness?
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I guess I haven't heard the high end versions. I'm under the impression that the V series were "better", but Rokits measure and sound scooped in the room, or at least the older versions do. Not just mine, I've seen it for others. That doesn't mean I don't like them. I kinda hated them for a long time....but it's something to be aware of.

The problem, at least to me, almost "solves itself" due to equal loudness contours if you play them on the quiet side.

I could be wrong about this....but one of the things people seem to miss is that "flat" speakers (actually tilted away from treble to sound right) are going to sound mid-forward if you monitor in the low 70s instead of the mid 80s like they're (generally) made for.

That being said...I got my pair for cheap off the floor at a guitar center in like 2006, and they still work. In that way, they're probably the most cost-effective music thing I've ever bought. They just don't sound good loud to me (even before they start distorting).
 
Okay, I forgot about this thread, but I would be remiss if I didn't thank all of you for your sage advice, so thanks everyone! You were all incredibly helpful. So, for my needs, it turns out that the 305p is fine for my needs. It's not amazing or anything, but I don't need it to be. For $129.00 it really was a steal.

I really don't need an "amp in the room" or an "amp replacement" as mostly I play live through my PA system anyway, and I use either a wedge or an IEM. If I want to perform with just the FM9, I don't need another FR speaker, since I have a whole PA system of nice tops that can all very nicely double as an "amp in the room" if I need it. So there was really no need for something like the Fender FR series or the Headrush. Moreover, 75% if the time I practice at home, I use a nice pair of studio headphones.

So thanks again for all the advice!
 
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